Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I think it will function like a James Street people mover, with extremely frequent service that transferring becomes painless.
It probably should connect to Metrolinx's GO bus terminal, which is only 3-4 blocks south of King, and provides a less-congested location away from Main-King to reverse direction of the James people mover (A-Line spur).

My question is what will happen to car traffic on James. I'm all for slowing down cars to 2-way (As long as there's fast options like the underused Burlington expressway), but I don't think Hamilton is yet ready to completely eliminate cars from James street. We're not that progressive, yet. Someday perhaps, but not yet. So we need to find a way to share James Street between LRT and cars, without slowing down LRT too much.

In theory, it may be possible they may decide to run different directions on different streets (James & John) to preserve car lanes and streetside parking. This would be better than doing the slow non-grade-separated streetcar technique that Toronto does, as there's not enough room to separate LRT from car traffic on James Street. So either it would have to be shared traffic (slow, slow!) or a single traffic-separated LRT lane, with a separate direction on a parallel street such as John or Bay. Maybe a revitalization opportunity for a different street? Hope the study looks at this.
 
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nfitz said:
Outside of Toronto, I'm not sure it get's much better than that ... except perhaps Yonge Street north of Steeles.
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Well, that's unfortunate. It still doesn't make it any less questionable that we're spending $1 Billion to move 1,950 people at peak. $1 Billion could build a whole lot of BRT. I'm almost positive that this map that was posted earlier could be entirely covered by BRT for less money.

I know in the TTC's Transit City days, the capacity of BRT was generally regarded to be somewhere in the 3,000 - 4,000 people range, so it's a little surprising to me to see an approved LRT project that moves only 1950 at peak. I don't know about the particulars of this proposal, however, so I'd be happy to be educated if there are any caveats that make BRT untenable.
 
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mdrejhon said:
I think it will function like a James Street people mover, with extremely frequent service that transferring becomes painless.
It probably should connect to Metrolinx's GO bus terminal, which is only 3-4 blocks south of King, and provides a less-congested location away from Main-King to reverse direction of the James people mover (A-Line spur).

My question is what will happen to car traffic on James. I'm all for slowing down cars to 2-way (As long as there's fast options like the underused Burlington expressway), but I don't think Hamilton is yet ready to completely eliminate cars from James street. We're not that progressive, yet. Someday perhaps, but not yet. So we need to find a way to share James Street between LRT and cars, without slowing down LRT too much.

In theory, it may be possible they may decide to run different directions on different streets (James & John) to preserve car lanes and streetside parking. This would be better than doing the slow non-grade-separated streetcar technique that Toronto does, as there's not enough room to separate LRT from car traffic on James Street. So either it would have to be shared traffic (slow, slow!) or a single traffic-separated LRT lane, with a separate direction on a parallel street such as John or Bay. Maybe a revitalization opportunity for a different street? Hope the study looks at this.
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I've always liked the idea of Hughson as an LRT & Pedestrian-only transitway between TH&B GO to WestHarbour GO.

I think it the line should turn down James at Cannon, buying up the PhoDauBo & PartSource land to build a station-stop there.
 
Word just got out that Metrolinx essentially has full control over the line (Owners, Operators, and Maintainers) - according to the Mayor. This is good news for the HSR seeing as they can't maintain what they have, properly fund their own transit system, or provide a competent level of service.
 
It also means HSR loses a profitable route -- the B-Line is HSR's most profitable bus route as far as I know. It subsidizes other HSR bus routes. While we'd love the LRT, we'd like to make sure HSR doesn't degrade as a result of the LRT. Hope the city negotiates well on this.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Well, that's unfortunate. It still doesn't make it any less questionable that we're spending $1 Billion to move 1,950 people at peak. $1 Billion could build a whole lot of BRT. I'm almost positive that this map that was posted earlier could be entirely covered by BRT for less money.
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30,000+ people per day is not shabby for an LRT. Remember that Hamilton's peak behavior is somewhat different from a lot of cities. The McMaster students and the shiftwork at many Hamilton industries, really spreads peak surges here in Hamilton. We don't get as contrastingly sharp peak periods like Toronto does. Sometimes midday is almost as busy as peak!

Although the capital costs are stupendous (especially with Ontario debt), moving 30,000 people per day by LRT is operationally cheaper than moving 30,000 people per day by BRT. There are pros and cons of LRT and BRT, but for Hamilton, the LRT makes a lot of sense from a citybuilding uplift perspective, given the depressed state of lots of Lower City, combined with really good LRT-justifying traffic on the B-Line that would go up even more.

It is wholly possible that the projection of 30,000 per day is a gross underestimate, as many LRTs have exceeded the most optimistic estimates. But maybe not. Still, 30,000 people per day on one route is quite not shabby. Bus connectors will probably help amplify this, reducing the number of kilometers buses need to transport passengers at higher cost, and transporting people at lower LRT cost. (In 2001, Calgary C-Train cost only $0.27 per passenger to operate, versus $1.50 per bus passenger -- and that is including 2001 electric versus diesel prices; today the differential is bigger). Today, Hamilton's HSR average operating cost is about $5 per bus passenger. Done well, the LRT could slash operating cost per passenger quite a bit. The capital cost is the painful part, though.

Also, I need to point out that $1bn includes two LRT lines (A-line stub), so it's likely a $750bn allocation to the B-Line

But that said... about the need for BRTs... You are right, we also need BRTs, or at least more good fast frequent buses, too. Hopefully a bus expansion announcement is coming too.
 
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I've put together a Phased approach to Hamilton's Light Rail Network construction (doesn't include planned BRT routes)


HamiltonPhasedLRT2.jpg


Phase 1 (Dark Blue): McMaster to Queenston Traffic Circle, with 'partial A-Line Spur connecting both Downtown GO Stations
Phase 2 (Light Blue): Queenston Traffic Circle to Centennial GO (via Eastgate Square)
Phase 3 (Dark Red): TH&B GO Centre to Limeridge Mall (via Mohawk College)
Phase 4 (Light Red): Limeridge Mall to Mountain Brow (via Mohawk Rd East)
Phase 5 (Light Purple): Upper James to Ancaster Meadowlands (via Mohawk Rd West)
Phase 6: (Purple): Mohawk Rd to Hamilton International Airport (via Upper James St)
 

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DC83 said:
I've put together a Phased approach to Hamilton's Light Rail Network construction (doesn't include planned BRT routes)

Phase 1 (Dark Blue): McMaster to Queenston Traffic Circle, with 'partial A-Line Spur connecting both Downtown GO Stations
Phase 2 (Light Blue): Queenston Traffic Circle to Centennial GO (via Eastgate Square)
Phase 3 (Dark Red): TH&B GO Centre to Limeridge Mall (via Mohawk College)
Phase 4 (Light Red): Limeridge Mall to Mountain Brow (via Mohawk Rd East)
Phase 5 (Light Purple): Upper James to Ancaster Meadowlands (via Mohawk Rd West)
Phase 6: (Purple): Mohawk Rd to Hamilton International Airport (via Upper James St)
Click to expand...

Looks good! Out of curiosity, how did you produce the base map? I like the look of it. I've been trying to find a good alternative to satellite imagery for to-scale maps for a while now, but the maps I've found have too much info on them, or have too many prominent colours to be used as a base map. The grey roads on white background looks really good, as it's all passive colours.
 
DC83 said:
I've always liked the idea of Hughson as an LRT & Pedestrian-only transitway between TH&B GO to WestHarbour GO.
I think it the line should turn down James at Cannon, buying up the PhoDauBo & PartSource land to build a station-stop there.
Click to expand...
Another possibility one LRT rail down Hughson, and one LRT rail down James. The pro is that it permits traffic separation from cars on James, possibly keeps one streetside parking, all without eliminating cars from James Street. There can be two modes of operation with this. If the James Street A-Line stub operates speedily, only one LRT car is needed north of King as a back-and-fourth peoplemover with a quick 15-minute cycle using just one LRT car that passes another only south of King (keep the 2nd A-Line LRT car parked in front of Hunter GO until the other A-Line LRT car moves south of King); using Hughson only in case of an emergency, detour, blockage, or during SuperCrawl (to keep James completely free). There could be two LRT rails on James south of King or thereabouts.

The Toronto TTC method of mixing streetcars into traffic, would slow down the LRT too much on James, so that is not a very appealing option. With only one LRT rail on James, and keeping it separate of cars, it simplifies traffic-priority operation, and a 15-minute cycle between Hunter and JamesNorth is very doable, so nobody along the line waits more than 15 minutes even if only one LRT vehicle operates on A-Line north of King street. This would be a great compromise that preserves cars on James Street, and at least one streetside parking, while still providing a detour option (Hughson rail) or even future loop option in the peak direction to move more people to the JamesNorth GO station as quickly as possible from King. During offpeak, it can revert to a back-and-fourth people mover. Even the loop option can be taken advantage by people wanting to take the opposite direction, simply by staying on the LRT as it loops around, if they don't feel like walking from James to Hughson and aren't in a hurry to go the opposite direction. There are many creative ideas and solutions that the city hall needs to look at, and maybe some of us Hamiltonians need to lobby them to look at ideas that makes the most people happiest.

Then 30-50 years from now, if the population votes to do so, we can decide to close James off to traffic and make it a 100% pedestrian+LRT path by adding the 2nd rail (when Hamilton is finally ready for a pedestrian-only bouelvard with trees in the middle of the road!) And adding extra infill stops could be viable too without slowing service too much (i.e. at every major intersection on James) if cars were eliminated from James.
 
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gweed123 said:
Looks good! Out of curiosity, how did you produce the base map? I like the look of it. I've been trying to find a good alternative to satellite imagery for to-scale maps for a while now, but the maps I've found have too much info on them, or have too many prominent colours to be used as a base map. The grey roads on white background looks really good, as it's all passive colours.
Click to expand...

http://gmaps-samples-v3.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/styledmaps/wizard/index.html

Have fun. :)
 
DC83 said:
I've put together a Phased approach to Hamilton's Light Rail Network construction (doesn't include planned BRT routes)


View attachment 47096

Phase 1 (Dark Blue): McMaster to Queenston Traffic Circle, with 'partial A-Line Spur connecting both Downtown GO Stations
Phase 2 (Light Blue): Queenston Traffic Circle to Centennial GO (via Eastgate Square)
Phase 3 (Dark Red): TH&B GO Centre to Limeridge Mall (via Mohawk College)
Phase 4 (Light Red): Limeridge Mall to Mountain Brow (via Mohawk Rd East)
Phase 5 (Light Purple): Upper James to Ancaster Meadowlands (via Mohawk Rd West)
Phase 6: (Purple): Mohawk Rd to Hamilton International Airport (via Upper James St)
Click to expand...

Has there been talk yet of extending the LRT from Mac to Dundas? I don't know where the terminus will be and if it is positioned for a future extension (given the grading of some of the roads it may be difficult).

In 10-20 years I expect that Brantford will have some rail commuting service so ideally there would be 2 stops in Dundas. Downtown and at the tracks. If the LRT connected it would give those that commute from Brantford an easy connection into the centre of Hamilton.

...definitely wouldn't propose it to be implemented now...just wanted to understand if it can be done based on the terminus design.
 
muller877 said:
Has there been talk yet of extending the LRT from Mac to Dundas? I don't know where the terminus will be and if it is positioned for a future extension (given the grading of some of the roads it may be difficult).

In 10-20 years I expect that Brantford will have some rail commuting service so ideally there would be 2 stops in Dundas. Downtown and at the tracks. If the LRT connected it would give those that commute from Brantford an easy connection into the centre of Hamilton.

...definitely wouldn't propose it to be implemented now...just wanted to understand if it can be done based on the terminus design.
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Considering Ted McMeekin was a key player in landing this, and his riding includes Dundas, I'm not sure why I didn't include it LOL
Dundas City Councillor Arlene Van Der Beek is opposed to LRT, and ran on that during last election (and clearly won). Not sure if her Ward wants it.
The original terminus was at University Plaza, border Ham/Dun.

I have a whole future metrolinx map that includes Brantford. I'm not sure why they haven't been vocal on being included is this Big Move?
 
I always thought that running it down Cootes Dr could offer an easy, quick straight-shot into downtown Dundas where the LRT could either terminate at York St on the edge of downtown or run in mixed traffic down King St through downtown Dundas.
 
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