Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[WislaHD]

Did they? Hadn't heard that. Hmm, not finding much other than some bus lanes.

Well I am following what ssiguy2 said here

London has just announced it's SWIFT rapid transit plan. They are yet are unsure if it will be BRT or LRT but the mayor who is a major backer and very eager to get started on the 2 'L" shaped routes will be looking for mega bucks.

I can't wait to see how Wynne is going to be able to explain to Londoners why they have to pay a third of the cost of their system while Hamilton gets 100% funding. This despite the fact that Hamilton is already a new GO station, better GO service, is luke warm about LRT at best, the slowest growing ridership level of any major system in the province since 2000, lower total ridership than London despite serving many more people, and far lower per-capita ridership.

I did not find a SWIFT rapid transit plan but I did find a SHIFT rapid transit plan. Probably an error. Here is the document for the Public Forum and here is what I have found about SHIFT.

 

[ehlow]

To have LRT projects under way in Ottawa, Toronto, Mississauga/Brampton, Kitchener-Waterloo, and now Hamilton is a really bright day for urban Ontario.

My reservation is not with the specifics of any of them. It's the feeling that Wynne is repeating the Rae legacy - big beginnings, then a retrenchment when the cumulative financial realities set in. I remember the cancellation of the first Guelph GO service. And I remember how long the completed grading for the Pickering-Whitby extension of the Lakeshore GO sat, bereft of tracks, because there was no longer money to finish it. Let's hope another Social Contract and "Wynne Days" aren't right around the corner.

We've also learned that this government is pretty good at rewriting history when it comes to commitments and timetables and long-range plans. We need to keep copies of all these announcements and press releases, and keep an eye on the early-on milestones. Otherwise things will slip at the starting gate, and the downstream construction/completion dates will get recast, and no one will be held to the initial "promise".

- Paul

It's the combination of LRTs and GO RER & GO improvements that's exciting for me, especially when they connect together. You can get to the city by train and also move around the city by transit after you get there.

Hopefully most of these projects survive politics/elections and end up happening, it seems like a good amount will.

 

[44 North]

Someone mentioned wanting to see a map, and I did as well. Not to mention it's nice to break up the monotony with a splash of colour.

 

[wopchop]

Ah, but look at it this way. Ion excludes Cambridge. So really only $300 million for 320,000. Almost $1,000 per person. And how much is province spending on the infrastructure to expand GO to Kitchener.

Perhaps it's Cambridge, Peterborough, and London that should be pissed.

The Province should consider looking at some of the other transit system requirements, if they have not already (definitely possible, given how much of the pot is for spending outstanding of the GTHA).

I was recently reading that Kingston's upgradess to it's bus system (15 minute peak frequency express bus system + more buses for route rejigging + electronic bus arrival boards & new bus stops) from 2011 to 2015 was only to cost $24.9 million dollars, which has attract up to 12% ridership growth on some of the new express routes. $4 million of the total is for a new terminal that they are apparently building this year. Also, see article.

Seems like there could be a lot more low-hanging fruit across the province, similar to the improvements above.

 

[mpd618]

Hamilton anti-LRT people want a BRT network instead.

Having seen the "better buses" crowd and "Taxpayers for Sensible Transit" crowd in Waterloo Region that supposedly wanted BRT, I claim BS. In our case and I think in Hamilton's case, BRT is mostly a way to say you don't want streets converted for transit use, without sounding anti-transit. If you dig deeper, you'll find most of those folks wouldn't support investing in a dedicated busway any more than they want a dedicated LRT corridor.

 

[TOareaFan]

Someone mentioned wanting to see a map, and I did as well. Not to mention it's nice to break up the monotony with a splash of colour.

that's an old map.....yes? didn't the announcement lop off the stops east of Queenston and add a spur to the new GO station?

 

[44 North]

Oh, you might be right. I don't know the plans all that well, and copied this from a recent CBC article. If anyone has something more up to date (even if homemade), that'd be appreciated. I drive on the 403 through Hamilton all the time, but almost never venture in (so I know very little about the city).

 

[Amare]

Although LRT would do wonders for Hamilton's transit system, upgrades HAVE to be made to the bus network. To simply put things into perspective, it does not work and it is the only Transit system in the GTAH which has experienced ridership decline. Heck it may be one of a select few in Ontario that has undergone a consistent decline in ridership in the past 15-20 years.

To illustrate this, just look at the Downtown MacNab "Terminal". They should just tear the whole thing down and start over. For people who arent familiar with Hamilton, it's the equivalent of Islington's/Warden's bus platforms except cut the number of bus bays in half, the platform waiting area in half (width wise), and the overhead canopy in half. Brampton's Shopper's World, MiWay's South Common Mall, and Burlington GO's bus terminals are all more functional and these are considered "secondary" hubs.

But back to LRT, does anyone have any idea how this would cross the 403? I'm assuming it has to done with a dedicated LRT bridge since it would be very difficult to use King St.

 

[CapitalSeven]

But back to LRT, does anyone have any idea how this would cross the 403? I'm assuming it has to done with a dedicated LRT bridge since it would be very difficult to use King St.

The plans I've seen (old) show a new bridge/flyover that starts out on the south side of King and lands on the north side of Main.

 

[mpd618]

Although LRT would do wonders for Hamilton's transit system, upgrades HAVE to be made to the bus network.

Yeah, you need a solid bus network to support a rapid transit system. Which is different than "we only need better buses, thanks".

But back to LRT, does anyone have any idea how this would cross the 403? I'm assuming it has to done with a dedicated LRT bridge since it would be very difficult to use King St.

I'd think it would be easier since there's no utility relocation work needed.

 

[rbt]

Speaking of maps, wouldn't it be nice to have one Google Map (Google Earth Map) with all of the transit investments shown in Ontario. I know there was something like this done for Scarborough during the debate...

There is something like this done for North America on The Transport Politic.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/under-construction/

It is assembled once per year and tends to include anything funded (see tabs on spreadsheet). The planning/future projects are a little less complete. The bulk of this years funding announcements in Ontario will show up in the 2016 map.

 

[CDL.TO]

K-W doesn't merit LRT based on its population size. K-W merits LRT based on the geography of destinations within its boundaries.

By a mix of history and chance, all the biggest destinations in K-W are on a single, relatively straight corridor. Both malls, both universities, both downtown cores, plus the main hospital and some major employment zones.

That's why K-W is able to justify operating a local bus with a 7-minute frequency plus an express bus with 10-15 minute frequency on this one corridor. The ridership has already been proven.

If K-W's destinations had been spread out across the city (like they are in London), there wouldn't be a case for LRT.

Population is a weak and crude basis for determining whether a location merits transit improvements. Basing things on population is the basis of the "Scarborough deserves subways" line of reasoning. Let's talk about existing and projected ridership instead.

 

[ShonTron]

K-W doesn't merit LRT based on its population size. K-W merits LRT based on the geography of destinations within its boundaries.

...

Population is a weak and crude basis for determining whether a location merits transit improvements. Basing things on population is the basis of the "Scarborough deserves subways" line of reasoning. Let's talk about existing and projected ridership instead.

Bingo. I think all London needs is a small network of frequent, fast bus routes. A corridor with bus priority measures (BRT-lite, if you will) between Masonville, UWO, Downtown, the Victoria Hospital campus, and White Oaks Mall, with a second corridor connecting Fanshawe with Downtown and Wonderland Mall, with local routes feeding that, with a minimum service frequency of every 15 minutes, every 5 during rush hours. And focus on a few other priority radial routes, like Wharncliffe, Oxford West, Hamilton St., and Dundas East, with minimum 15-20 minute service.

And an hourly (or better) bus service from White Oaks to St. Thomas.

 

[gweed123]

The Province should consider looking at some of the other transit system requirements, if they have not already (definitely possible, given how much of the pot is for spending outstanding of the GTHA).

I was recently reading that Kingston's upgradess to it's bus system (15 minute peak frequency express bus system + more buses for route rejigging + electronic bus arrival boards & new bus stops) from 2011 to 2015 was only to cost $24.9 million dollars, which has attract up to 12% ridership growth on some of the new express routes. $4 million of the total is for a new terminal that they are apparently building this year. Also, see article.

Seems like there could be a lot more low-hanging fruit across the province, similar to the improvements above.

I hadn't heard about that. And yes, it does definitely seem like low hanging fruit, especially since there's a $14 billion pot to draw on for municipalities outside the GTHA. I've been doing the rough math, and it doesn't seem like there's $14 billion worth of projects outside the GTHA in the next 10 years, unless the price tag for HSR is going to be massive. Ottawa's $1 billion and K-W's $300 million are the only big ticket items I can think of. It seems like the GTHA pot is going to be really tight though.

 

[WislaHD]

Bingo. I think all London needs is a small network of frequent, fast bus routes. A corridor with bus priority measures (BRT-lite, if you will) between Masonville, UWO, Downtown, the Victoria Hospital campus, and White Oaks Mall, with a second corridor connecting Fanshawe with Downtown and Wonderland Mall, with local routes feeding that, with a minimum service frequency of every 15 minutes, every 5 during rush hours. And focus on a few other priority radial routes, like Wharncliffe, Oxford West, Hamilton St., and Dundas East, with minimum 15-20 minute service.

And an hourly (or better) bus service from White Oaks to St. Thomas.

I began the London Rapid Transit thread here.

London is not part of the Golden Horseshoe, but we have an Ottawa thread and the topic should interest transit commentators on here.