Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[WislaHD]

Screw it. I would rather much take on the cost escalations later on (even if we are fully aware of them) if it means construction gets going for the LRT. This is the spine of Hamilton's future rapid transit network, it just needs to happen.

At worst, it will just be another example of the irresponsible spending from a provincal Liberal party that is already beyond redemption in the eyes of the voters.

I dislike that this is what it comes to, but the way transit is funded in this region is so ad hoc that we just have to be opportunistic and take and do whatever necessary to get projects underway, worry about consequences later.

 

[Allandale25]

yeah, I just saw that and posted an oliver moore tweet to that effect.

This is where our transit planning loses all credibility (IMO)

Last week:

cost to build $1B....if we go to Eastgate it will add $150 - $200MM

This week:

We can do it all for $1B

Maybe there are others who have been following this more closely and understand the project history better, but I'm not sure I've seen an article where it characterized the situation exactly like that. From what I've seen, the moment the Province dropped the spur there was speculation, including on Raise The Hammer, that there was going to be savings in the $1B to go to Eastgate. I guess the question is the extent of the savings and the finalized cost of the extension. The letter also seem to imply (at least how I read it) that other costs would be reduced to ensure the Eastgate extension fits within the $1B. Maybe Mark can provide more context.

 

[TOareaFan]

Maybe there are others who have been following this more closely and understand the project history better, but I'm not sure I've seen an article where it characterized the situation exactly like that. From what I've seen, the moment the Province dropped the spur there was speculation, including on Raise The Hammer, that there was going to be savings in the $1B to go to Eastgate. I guess the question is the extent of the savings and the finalized cost of the extension. The letter also seem to imply (at least how I read it) that other costs would be reduced to ensure the Eastgate extension fits within the $1B. Maybe Mark can provide more context.

just last week a Metrolinx spokesperson said extending to Eastgate would cost more.

 

[Allandale25]

just last week a Metrolinx spokesperson said extending to Eastgate would cost more.

Happy to read a link to that if you have it. I can't recall seeing it. This is the passage I was thinking of from a Raise The Hammer article:

"As such, the extension to Eastgate is likely to fit within the already-approved capital funding envelope of $1 billion, given the likely McMaster-Queenston cost of around $800-850 million and an estimated Queenston-Eastgate cost of around $150-200 million."

Also, just saw this tweet "Whitehead tells me they initially thought the bridge of the Red Hill parkway would have to be rebuilt. Now it only needs to be reinforced."

 

[TOareaFan]

Happy to read a link to that if you have it. I can't recall seeing it. This is the passage I was thinking of from a Raise The Hammer article:

"As such, the extension to Eastgate is likely to fit within the already-approved capital funding envelope of $1 billion, given the likely McMaster-Queenston cost of around $800-850 million and an estimated Queenston-Eastgate cost of around $150-200 million."

it was in the Spectator story when the councillor brought back Eastgate back into discussion.......I will look for that for the direct quote but even today the Spectator is referencing it in their new story

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/7...ork-with-hamilton-to-extend-line-to-eastgate/

here it is:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/7253923-lrt-debate-old-plan-pitched-as-last-minute-new-plan/

The city originally asked in 2013 for a fully funded 14-kilometere LRT between McMaster University and Eastgate, on the edge of Stoney Creek. But the provincial Liberals instead announced $1 billion to build from the university to Queenston, with a surprise north-south spur on James Street to link up with the new GO station.

Reinserting the lost three kilometres — and stops at Parkdale, Nash and the mall — would "not be technically difficult" because the section was already approved as part of the city's original 2011 EA, said Metrolinx project head Andrew Hope.

That section of the line was also planned to run down the centre of the street, which means it matches up with the newly centre-running LRT tracks in the updated study for the western half of the project.

"The question would be the budget," said Hope, who noted extending an extra three kilometres could cost in the "ballpark" of $180 million.

Technically, the project saved about $120 million earlier this year when the province decided to axe the James Street A-line spur in favour of studying a bus rapid transit system running from the harbour to the airport.

 

[mdrejhon]

It'll be approved Wednesday, no problem --
Terry Whitehead is easily #yesLRT, no matter what he spouts, and what media claims.

It's the O&M agreement we shsould be worried about. Far bigger battle.

Word is Terry Whitehead and Tom Jackson are about to vote #yesLRT

That means the Hamilton LRT stays alive.

Keeps the Hamilton LRT on track.....till the circus of the O&M Agreement in early 2018 squarely in the middle of two major electoral campaigns!

 

[Allandale25]

Thanks I haven't been able to follow every article and would have assume the author for the Raise the Hammer piece was following the situation closely. Given the Minister's letter included language about bringing costs down, it'll be interesting to see what happens. As Mark has just said, there will be a further vote on this at a later date. It also wouldn't be the only example of a transit project where approval is given and later on there are further costs.

it was in the Spectator story when the councillor brought back Eastgate back into discussion.......I will look for that for the direct quote but even today the Spectator is referencing it in their new story

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/7...ork-with-hamilton-to-extend-line-to-eastgate/

here it is:

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/7253923-lrt-debate-old-plan-pitched-as-last-minute-new-plan/

 

[TOareaFan]

Thanks I haven't been able to follow every article and would have assume the author for the Raise the Hammer piece was following the situation closely. Given the Minister's letter included language about bringing costs down, it'll be interesting to see what happens. As Mark has just said, there will be a further vote on this at a later date. It also wouldn't be the only example of a transit project where approval is given and later on there are further costs.

right...we play with facts to to get the outcome we want....that is how transit is planned in this region and it is very sad.

last week they were subtly threatening Hamilton that any change in scope might lead to them having to write a cheque...this week they magically find cost savings to fit it inside the budget envelope......how are we supposed to have any faith/confidence in their budgets/projections?

 

[drum118]

LRT at hour 11: Province willing to work with Hamilton to extend line to Eastgate

 

[Allandale25]

Not sure if this was directed at me or a general comment of frustration, but I'm not trying to play with facts to support an outcome I want. I try to be careful when I post to qualify what I'm saying so certainly welcome more material. It's hard to stay on topic of all the articles on a situation like this.

I think the speculation that there would be cost savings by dropping the spur and the strong desire for many to go to Eastgate has been around for awhile so I don't think it came out of thin air. In terms of the faith part, is the "their" a reference to Metrolinx or the City of Hamilton?

right...we play with facts to to get the outcome we want....that is how transit is planned in this region and it is very sad.

last week they were subtly threatening Hamilton that any change in scope might lead to them having to write a cheque...this week they magically find cost savings to fit it inside the budget envelope......how are we supposed to have any faith/confidence in their budgets/projections?

 

[TOareaFan]

Not sure if this was directed at me or a general comment of frustration, but I'm not trying to play with facts to support an outcome I want. I try to be careful when I post to qualify what I'm saying so certainly welcome more material. It's hard to stay on topic of all the articles on a situation like this.

I think the speculation that there would be cost savings by dropping the spur and the strong desire for many to go to Eastgate has been around for awhile so I don't think it came out of thin air. In terms of the faith part, is the "their" a reference to Metrolinx or the City of Hamilton?

no, sorry, it was directed at the people who govern us and plan transit......i can see how you might have thought it was directed at you and I apologize for that.

 

[TOareaFan]

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/857358443145023488

 

[salsa]

Motion by Whitehead.

 

[mdrejhon]

Also, just saw this tweet "Whitehead tells me they initially thought the bridge of the Red Hill parkway would have to be rebuilt. Now it only needs to be reinforced."

Also, the 2011 EA already has the Hamilton LRT in the median beyond Traffic Circle, so few changes are needed. I think it won't be difficult to find the approoximately $50M extra during the 2018 electorial campaigning, whether municipal, provincial or federal. There is also little expropriation needed in this section between Circle and Eastgate from what I understand.

A paltry 5% increase to the LRT budget to give the LRT more maor destination right away.

They can easily overlap an Eastgate ESR and add it to scope, with a little bit of scrambling to make it happen quickly.

The minefield of 2018 is the thing to worry about ... not tonight's ESR vote that is now all but certain to pass.

 

[mdrejhon]

Motion by Whitehead.

View attachment 106974

See.... Terry is easily #yesLRT.

I long knew that, even if he can be frustrating, in pandering to his suburban electorate...

Big surprise to me is Chad Collins. He's miraculously flipping #yesLRT.

Ten likely votes in the can! That's two thirds of 15.

Far beyond the minimum 8 to pass.

It'll be a pass!