News   Dec 20, 2024
UrbanToronto Year-End Poll: Vote on the Best Buildings of 2024, presented by Sapphire Balconies
 2.9K     9 
News   Dec 20, 2024
UrbanToronto's Social Media Presence Skyrocketed in 2024
 1.1K     3 
News   Dec 20, 2024
Mattamy Homes Records A Year of Accomplishments
 1.9K     0 

Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

T3G said:
For what possible reason would they need ATP for the dedicated sections of ION? At the speeds and frequencies they run, surely a meeting between trains isn't very likely? This isn't a subway service running every 2 minutes...
Click to expand...
The signalling system was designed for the eventuality of 5 minute frequency intervals with doubled trains. While is not needed in the on-street portion between south of Waterloo Public Square/Willis Way and north of Mill Stations because of the speeds of 50 km/h or lower and transit signals at intersections the other sections do need to have ATP in order to allow multiple trains in each direction to enter these sections without needing to have track warrants. The off-street sections permit speeds of 70 km/h in sections and so they do need a signalling system to protect against collisions between trains
 
Last edited:
T3G said:
For what possible reason would they need ATP for the dedicated sections of ION? At the speeds and frequencies they run, surely a meeting between trains isn't very likely? This isn't a subway service running every 2 minutes...
Click to expand...
I think for a new build situation there is little or no difference in cost these days between a conventional block signal system with lineside signals and train stops and a more advanced signalling system with moving blocks (it might even be cheaper due to less lineside hardware). So I guess from a planning perspective there's little downside with going with the more advanced system even if you will never run trains frequently enough to take advantage of all its capabilities.
 
duffo said:
The line runs automated in its grade-separated right-of-way underground/elevated (Automatic Train Operation or ATO), and once it emerges at Laird, it switches to manual control since it runs on street (Automatic Train Protection or ATP). Transitioning between the two systems on one line mid-service I believe is somewhat unconventional and is probably behind some of the headaches.
Click to expand...
Edmonton experienced similar problems and delays with its Metro LRT Line. The downtown portion is double lined onto the existing Capital Line tracks which uses a fixed block control system. Thales which wrote the train control software claimed they could integrate the Metro Line’s moving block control system with the older fixed block system. The software was ultimately unable to deliver the desired headways and was replaced by software from Alstom.
 
rankman said:
Edmonton experienced similar problems and delays with its Metro LRT Line. The downtown portion is double lined onto the existing Capital Line tracks which uses a fixed block control system. Thales which wrote the train control software claimed they could integrate the Metro Line’s moving block control system with the older fixed block system. The software was ultimately unable to deliver the desired headways and was replaced by software from Alstom.
Click to expand...
In this case Crosstown LRT is using Alstom as its software provider; doesn't appear to have helped much so far.
 
bono47 said:
In this case Crosstown LRT is using Alstom as its software provider; doesn't appear to have helped much so far.
Click to expand...
There was huge problems on the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail) in London. I think the system is from Siemens (part of it is - being mainline rail it's complicated with multiple systems).

I think this is just the nature of the beast these days. Line 1 seemed to go relatively smoothly in terms of operations- at least once they got competent vendors. Much of it was Alstom in the end.

I think a lot of this is just the nature of the beast. I'm not sure why the early 1970s system in Montreal and early 1980s system on the SRT seemed to be less problematic. Perhaps the system tries to do too much now?
 
T3G said:
For what possible reason would they need ATP for the dedicated sections of ION? At the speeds and frequencies they run, surely a meeting between trains isn't very likely? This isn't a subway service running every 2 minutes...
Click to expand...

Sadly, ION got slower when Automatic Train Protection (ATP) was enabled, and it seems they're resolved to just living with it instead of fixing it. Southbound trains slow to a crawl way too early in Waterloo Park before getting to the Erb/Caroline intersection, and again slow to a crawl well ahead of getting to the Hayward S. Yes, the speed limits do drop ahead of these road transitions, but still, the trains were much quicker through them when the drivers were doing Line Of Sight (LOS) before ATP was enabled. I'm convinced the signaling is glitchy at these locations.
 
KevinT said:
Sadly, ION got slower when Automatic Train Protection (ATP) was enabled, and it seems they're resolved to just living with it instead of fixing it. Southbound trains slow to a crawl way too early in Waterloo Park before getting to the Erb/Caroline intersection, and again slow to a crawl well ahead of getting to the Hayward S. Yes, the speed limits do drop ahead of these road transitions, but still, the trains were much quicker through them when the drivers were doing Line Of Sight (LOS) before ATP was enabled. I'm convinced the signaling is glitchy at these locations.
Click to expand...

Yes, I was dismayed the first time I rode it and observed the same. The last straightaway right before the southern terminal I found particularly egregious. If Canadians knew how to operate an LRT/streetcar system properly there wouldn't be a single argument against them on the whole of the forum!
 
T3G said:
Yes, I was dismayed the first time I rode it and observed the same. The last straightaway right before the southern terminal I found particularly egregious. If Canadians knew how to operate an LRT/streetcar system properly there wouldn't be a single argument against them on the whole of the forum!
Click to expand...

That last straightaway before Fairway Station is because of the foot crossing they added post-opening to address north side neighbourhood concerns about access to the shops on the south side of the corridor. It's been there a few years now but still has no lights or gates. My best guess is that some contractual issue between the region and the operating consortium prevents any modification of the signaling blocks to add lights and gates here, or fix the two southbound slow zones mentioned in my previous post. Sure wish that they'd find a way to just throw money at these problems and fix them.
 
Is this a sign that the line is finally ready to open soon? I can’t access the article so idk when he’s leaving. If it’s this week - that’s scary. If it’s in the spring then that’s fitting. The project is like 99.8% done (I hope) like why leave now immediately?
 
JoMax213 said:
Oh wow, Verster is resigning.

www.thestar.com

Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster resigning after seven years: sources

Sources, speaking confidentially in order to discuss internal deliberations, confirmed Verster is stepping down from the organization he has lead for more than seven years.
www.thestar.com www.thestar.com
Click to expand...
TLDR for us who can't afford a subscription?

I had a feeling this would happen. They couldn't afford to not renew his contract last year but I bet they told him to resign as soon as the CT is finished. At least now it's a mutually neutral outcome
 
cplchanb said:
TLDR for us who can't afford a subscription?

I had a feeling this would happen. They couldn't afford to not renew his contract last year but I bet they told him to resign as soon as the CT is finished. At least now it's a mutually neutral outcome
Click to expand...
I don’t have a subscription, but it seems the resignation is imminent, not immediate. He didn’t announce this himself, rather journos found out.

Oh! And a new scandal also just dropped:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1863649980809904238

So um… yay new PR disaster - exactly what we needed!
 
JoMax213 said:
I don’t have a subscription, but it seems the resignation is imminent, not immediate. He didn’t announce this himself, rather journos found out.

Oh! And a new scandal also just dropped:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1863649980809904238

So um… yay new PR disaster - exactly what we needed!
Click to expand...
Tbf Well allowance doesn't necessarily mean that he used it. It's just available to him if he needed it. That being said if he doesn't have a car but still claimed that allowance as part of his income, that would be fraud
 
cplchanb said:
TLDR for us who can't afford a subscription?

I had a feeling this would happen. They couldn't afford to not renew his contract last year but I bet they told him to resign as soon as the CT is finished. At least now it's a mutually neutral outcome
Click to expand...
The headline pretty much summarizes everything, not much depth to the article yet.

He hasn't resigned just yet and they are still doing "internal deliberations". It's pretty much imminent though from the wording though.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top