Palma
Senior Member
were you not joking
|
|
|
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Don't think that makes sense. It's very close to the Eglinton line.
Steve X
Senior Member
In PM rush hour, the congestion around Lawrence West is really bad. you can be stuck there for 10 minutes with a whole row of cars lined up from Dufferin to Allen. All because everyone is trying to merge in to the left lane to get on Allen. The right lane is usually filled with buses.
The 59 Maple Leaf bus hardly even runs in off peak. Evenings and weekends are at 30 min headway. The current 32C runs much more frequent. Even the current 171 gets a lot of riders taking it for 5 stops.
Hardly anyone in central Etobicoke take transit in the east-west direction. It's much faster to go down to line 2 than across to line 1. In North York/former Borough of York, going east-west is faster. It takes the same amount of time to get from Keele/Lawrence to Lawrence West and Keelesdale. The 52 is much more frequent. Guess where everyone is going to go?
crs1026
Superstar
Today's public meeting at Richview Collegiate was apparently meant to be overview and consultation of all the various ML/City projects on the table, but the audience turned its focus directly towards the Crosstown West LRT proposal. Very vocal skepticism/opposition from local residents. The local MP, MPP, and two City councillors in attendance.
City staff positioned this as merely a reportback delivering their position that the Tory heavy rail option will not be recommended. Audience were one step ahead of them, turned this into "so why does this make LRT a given?"
Several speakers put BRT on the table. Staff responded that they would give this option greater profile and study. Next meeting in April will include reportback on BRT.
Much commentary about whether LRT implied a middle of road alignment, versus something more elaborate. Staff response - nothing is preferred at this point, but cost and time to construct being considerations. Planner present emphasised that City did preserve a 45m corridor and staff maintain that LRT will fit in this width.
Councillor made an interesting point that while Eglinton is heavily trafficked, once you pass East Mall, it disperses in many directions. There is no logical or prevailing "destination" for a transit line. (This kinda argues for a busway - routes fanning out at Renforth). Councillor indicated his own view that this project was not top of the list for him.
My personal observations
- I wonder how 45 meters width compares to Finch, Eglinton East, and Kingston Road - is this really enough to do anything more than a streetcar style center of road. The point was made that "LRT is not streetcar" but no one could provide assurance that CT West would deliver anything more than streetcar performance.
- Ridership numbers were challenged. Given the numbers we've seen are so low, this will assist the detractors.
- This is a pretty organized and well-connected community.
- There will have to be a good traffic plan, otherwise neighbourhood objections will be loud and long.
- Paul
City staff positioned this as merely a reportback delivering their position that the Tory heavy rail option will not be recommended. Audience were one step ahead of them, turned this into "so why does this make LRT a given?"
Several speakers put BRT on the table. Staff responded that they would give this option greater profile and study. Next meeting in April will include reportback on BRT.
Much commentary about whether LRT implied a middle of road alignment, versus something more elaborate. Staff response - nothing is preferred at this point, but cost and time to construct being considerations. Planner present emphasised that City did preserve a 45m corridor and staff maintain that LRT will fit in this width.
Councillor made an interesting point that while Eglinton is heavily trafficked, once you pass East Mall, it disperses in many directions. There is no logical or prevailing "destination" for a transit line. (This kinda argues for a busway - routes fanning out at Renforth). Councillor indicated his own view that this project was not top of the list for him.
My personal observations
- I wonder how 45 meters width compares to Finch, Eglinton East, and Kingston Road - is this really enough to do anything more than a streetcar style center of road. The point was made that "LRT is not streetcar" but no one could provide assurance that CT West would deliver anything more than streetcar performance.
- Ridership numbers were challenged. Given the numbers we've seen are so low, this will assist the detractors.
- This is a pretty organized and well-connected community.
- There will have to be a good traffic plan, otherwise neighbourhood objections will be loud and long.
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
A side of road alignment shouldn't take up any more room than centre of road.
The surface section, west of Mt. Dennis, with the stop spacing and alignment proposed in Transit City is expected to operate with an average speed of 28 to 31 km/h. This is faster than the Yonge-University and Bloor-Danforth lines, and 2.5 times faster than the 32 Eglinton West. This is all available in the Crosstown EA. It's too bad the planners didn't know this; it would've helped to dispel their worries.
Which Councillor was this? Mr. Campbell?
Last edited:
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I would like the BRT to be studied. It might be faster than the LRT, if it is interlined with local bus routes. Challenges will be bus frequencies, bunching.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Based on what I'm reading on Twitter, these people thing BRT will widen the roads and give more space to cars.
Palma
Senior Member
But during rush hour every 12 min and off peak every 20 min though in the evening it is 30min. But it is the rush hour that benefits people - AM &PM
Palma
Senior Member
thats the thing. Those people love their cars and that was their concern that the LRT would interfere with it. One resident even said that the LRT should accommodate buses using the same tracks which made no sense. With an LRT there would be no buses unless there will be limited stops along Crosstown west. Thats why the LRT only needs to stop at major intersections and after Martingrove straight to Pearson. Obviously they have to know that now that heavy rail is off the table and Tory wants a route to Pearson (less expensive than UP presently), BRT does not to make sense. There is so much misconception of LRT. There was also concern about "overheard wires", etc and how it would not be ecstatically pleasing.
A valid point is people were interested in transit in their part of the neighbourhood not in the East end in Scarborough. In Scarborough I am sure the focus is out there. And for residents that use their car, they are not interested in the DRL or SmartTrack either. Metrolinx had to know this. i looked at the boards but not all as there was limited time but got a good explanation of the electrification and how there will be 3 different sizes of electrical generators (not the correct terminology) and where they will be stationed so i found it interesting. But when you have a crowd whom do no want to give up their cars its a different story
Palma
Senior Member
But these politicians are also trying to represent the residents and if the residents feel LRT is not a good option he will say that (even though personally he may think they are). They do not want to be known as the politician who championed for a particular mode of transit against residents wishes come election time. They want to go on the record as fighting for what residents want.
Whats great if people do not want the LRT, is there won't be people clamouring to have more stops than necessary. The Crosstown could afford to loose a few stations (4-5 spring to mind) so there would only be 20-21 stops (the central portion though). Minimize stations on Crosstown west and east. There should not be more than 40 from the end of Crosstown West to the end of o Crosstown East
Last edited:
salsa
Senior Member
Whenever the LRT haters call for a BRT (when they can't get a subway of course), they're not talking about real BRT with dedicated lanes like Viva. At best they just want an express bus with maybe a couple of queue jump lanes, all of which would be a temporary measure while they forever await the possibility for a subway instead. At least that's what we've seen with the Sheppard LRT, and it's has almost everything to do with entitled drivers who don't take transit who don't want to lose even half a minute of their time.
crs1026
Superstar
Yeah - Mr. Campbell. The scary part was, he was kind of articulate.
Two times faster than 32 in this segment, or overall? My impression is that the bus moves as well as anything out in this stretch, unlike east of Keele. Personally I have no faith in Toronto's implementation of priority signalling. I would like to see some separation at major intersections. If the land hadn't been sold off, I'm sure there could have been left turn lanes figured out that would satisfy the residents (that seems to be the biggest issue), but as all the new buildings go up I'm not so sure.
Still, if the ridership numbers aren't there....
PS - it was pointed out that the EA never contemplated going into the airport, just "close to it".
- Paul
crs1026
Superstar
Well, the only way you're going to change that is to build a section that works and use it as an example. Somebody cited Queensway as an example, and it isn't close to LRT ideals. What Torontonians know is that we called St Clair LRT, and it isn't ......and we called Queens Quay LRT.......and it isn't.......and we called Spadina LRT.......and it isn't. You can't blame people for seeing things as they actually are.
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
How is the Queensway not close to LRT?
crs1026
Superstar
There in no (working) transit priority signalling, tracks are never well maintained and frequently have slow orders, stop spacing is fairly close.
It doesn't help that it's the end of the run and operators who have kept to schedule can dog it over the last lap from St Joe's, because the schedule padding allows this. Also doesn't help that they creep over the turnouts ar Roncy, or stop to socialise with other operators there.
501 to bus at Humber Loop is my most frequently used TTC route, so I feel quite comfortable in saying - it ain't Portlandia.
- Paul
It doesn't help that it's the end of the run and operators who have kept to schedule can dog it over the last lap from St Joe's, because the schedule padding allows this. Also doesn't help that they creep over the turnouts ar Roncy, or stop to socialise with other operators there.
501 to bus at Humber Loop is my most frequently used TTC route, so I feel quite comfortable in saying - it ain't Portlandia.
- Paul