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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

robmausser said:
Thank you... what the hell is this talk about "conversion to LRT" not being possible.

Its %*&$ing pavement in an ROW... of course it can be converted to LRT.

What, is there hot lava under the asphalt that makes it impossible?
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LOL... that explains the heated platforms!

There is SOME truth in the statement. The BRT route had to be adjusted to cut costs. To do this, the route was slightly shifted in a few areas to avoid having to relocate utilities. There are 2 areas that will need some work in the future if it is to be converted to LRT, as the grading is too steep. Other than that, there is absolutely nothing preventing this from being converted in the future.

The idea that it can't be converted is laughable. Im sure hydro didn't build the ROW to accommodate a BRT, yet here we are today.
 
There is nothing about the basic structure of a roadway that prevents upgrading to LRT, but the cost may vary according to design.

If underground utilities were not built to be LRT-ready, they may have to be moved or rebuilt....trackage doesn't like manhole covers! That can greatly add to cost and construction time. The same is true if some weight capacities or clearances were minimised on the assumption that only busses would be carried.

I have no idea whether any of this is a concern for the lines under discussion.

I agree with the previous comment that there may be a practical limit to how long an LRT (or subway, for that matter) should be. Bunching is enough of a problem on the TTC's streetcar lines, never mind a line as long as Cross town will be, with or without extension to Square One. Does anyone have any data on what the longer LRT lines are in other metropolitian areas?

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I agree with the previous comment that there may be a practical limit to how long an LRT (or subway, for that matter) should be. Bunching is enough of a problem on the TTC's streetcar lines, never mind a line as long as Cross town will be, with or without extension to Square One. Does anyone have any data on what the longer LRT lines are in other metropolitian areas?

- Paul
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I don't believe bunching will be an issue that needs to be worried about. The Crosstown is in its own ROW, and is going to have traffic signal priority. The trains are also much longer, and can be grouped together. It can't be compared to any of the existing streetcar lines because it is nothing like the existing lines.
 
crs1026 said:
There is nothing about the basic structure of a roadway that prevents upgrading to LRT, but the cost may vary according to design.

If underground utilities were not built to be LRT-ready, they may have to be moved or rebuilt....trackage doesn't like manhole covers! That can greatly add to cost and construction time. The same is true if some weight capacities or clearances were minimised on the assumption that only busses would be carried.

I have no idea whether any of this is a concern for the lines under discussion.

I agree with the previous comment that there may be a practical limit to how long an LRT (or subway, for that matter) should be. Bunching is enough of a problem on the TTC's streetcar lines, never mind a line as long as Cross town will be, with or without extension to Square One. Does anyone have any data on what the longer LRT lines are in other metropolitian areas?

- Paul
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When people say BRT can't be converted to LRT they mean the BRT isn't being designed to accommodate a simple retrofit. Some BRT lines are designed to be easily retrofitted and some aren't. Obviously, even if the BRT isn't designed to be easily retrofitted it can be ripped out and replaced with LRT for a cost.
 
howl said:
When people say BRT can't be converted to LRT they mean the BRT isn't being designed to accommodate a simple retrofit. Some BRT lines are designed to be easily retrofitted and some aren't. Obviously, even if the BRT isn't designed to be easily retrofitted it can be ripped out and replaced with LRT for a cost.
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Yup, substantial parts of Ottawa's Transitway over the next decade or so will be upgraded to LRT. It was partially designed for LRT in that it has grade separations in key places, but for stations outside of the downtown (Blair, Cyrville, St. Laurent, Train, Hurdman, Lees, uOttawa, Bayview, LeBreton) they're being more or less completely rebuilt in order to support LRT, although the degree of reconstruction varies depending on the station.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
So is the Eglinton West going to the airport or Square One? The Province might be more interested in Square, which would make ridership look better.
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Perhaps the best option is to send Eglinton LRT to the airport, and send SmartTrack (via the Weston sub and then parallel to Hwy 401) to the Eglinton and Hwy 427 area, and then to Square One.

Not sure though, if there are major problems with such routing of SmartTrack.
 
or how about letting the literally just opened mississauga transitway, which has been planned for over 20 years, serve Square one? It will handle demand in terms of capacity formidably for a long time.
 
innsertnamehere said:
or how about letting the literally just opened mississauga transitway, which has been planned for over 20 years, serve Square one? It will handle demand in terms of capacity formidably for a long time.
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Sure.

We are talking long term here. I think, no upgrade will be feasible for at least 10 years. The central section of SmartTrack (or GO RER, whichever name you prefer) needs to be built first anyway; and there is a list of other pressing priorities.
 
Tuscani01 said:
I don't believe bunching will be an issue that needs to be worried about. The Crosstown is in its own ROW, and is going to have traffic signal priority. The trains are also much longer, and can be grouped together. It can't be compared to any of the existing streetcar lines because it is nothing like the existing lines.
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The Crosstown would be about 50 km from Malvern to Square 1. It would only work if fully grade-separated so they have full control of the train travel. With 15 traffic lights in the East and probably a similar number in the west, there are just too many chances for something to go wrong. The slower travel time due to a lack of full grade-separation is another reason why this full route would be too long as an in-median LRT.
 
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Once the two TBM's (Dennis and Lee) are reset on their way on the east side of Allen Road, will the dirt going out and the linings going in continue to use Launch Shaft #1 (Black Creek) for that purpose? Or will they use the shaft at Allen Road?

Likely, to reduce the congestion and neighbourhood tensions, they'll probably continue to use Launch Shaft #1 until they reach Yonge Street. It'll be a longer trip for the material, but might be better for the neighbourhood at Allen Road and Eglinton. But what is the "official" plan & timeline for Launch Shaft #1?
 
W. K. Lis said:
Once the two TBM's (Dennis and Lee) are reset on their way on the east side of Allen Road, will the dirt going out and the linings going in continue to use Launch Shaft #1 (Black Creek) for that purpose? Or will they use the shaft at Allen Road?

Likely, to reduce the congestion and neighbourhood tensions, they'll probably continue to use Launch Shaft #1 until they reach Yonge Street. It'll be a longer trip for the material, but might be better for the neighbourhood at Allen Road and Eglinton. But what is the "official" plan & timeline for Launch Shaft #1?
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Not sure that would work, as there is no tunnel connecting launch shaft 1 to launch shaft 2. Any dirt coming from launch shaft 2 would need to be removed from the site, and then dropped back into the extraction shaft to be carried to the launch shaft for extraction again.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Once the two TBM's (Dennis and Lee) are reset on their way on the east side of Allen Road, will the dirt going out and the linings going in continue to use Launch Shaft #1 (Black Creek) for that purpose? Or will they use the shaft at Allen Road?

Likely, to reduce the congestion and neighbourhood tensions, they'll probably continue to use Launch Shaft #1 until they reach Yonge Street. It'll be a longer trip for the material, but might be better for the neighbourhood at Allen Road and Eglinton. But what is the "official" plan & timeline for Launch Shaft #1?
Click to expand...

So what about the neighbourhood at Shaft 1 (Mount Dennis)? What makes the neighbourhood at Allen so special? Its not the greatest stretch.
 
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