Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[jwill]

I think it sets a pretty bad precedent if Metrolinx/TTC starts expropriating homes for TC lines. Costs will increase, but they can avoid a lot of bad publicity that will hurt them on all other TC projects.

The Nimbys will be our in force against every single line if they think there is a risk of homes being expropriated. I bet all the delays and re-planning and compromised solutions this will breed will end up costing more than a Mount Dennis tunnel.

 

[nfitz]

They have to expropriate for subway lines too ... not sure I see the issue here.

 

[kettal]

if they use the richview ROW instead of putting the LRT in the middle of eglinton, they can probably make enough savings to pay for extending the tunnelled section west of weston road. west of this point, the LRT can travel on the side of the road. it would be very scenic done this way and easier to connect with traversing bus lines.

A pretty good idea, but in practise it mkes its own set of problems, for example, brand new bridges will have to be built for the tracks, a lot more expensive than piggy-backing on existing bridge. Evety property with driveway access on Eglinton will have to be reconfigured or expropriated, and right-turns (i.e. north onto Jane) will have to be signalized (and people tend to ignore right turn restrictions in this city).

In conclusion, it probably won't be cheaper, but more expensive to do that.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

A pretty good idea, but in practise it mkes its own set of problems, for example, brand new bridges will have to be built for the tracks, a lot more expensive than piggy-backing on existing bridge. Evety property with driveway access on Eglinton will have to be reconfigured or expropriated, and right-turns (i.e. north onto Jane) will have to be signalized (and people tend to ignore right turn restrictions in this city).

In conclusion, it probably won't be cheaper, but more expensive to do that.

after i had wrote that, i started to think of the issues that would arise that you pointed out now.


here's another alternative, why not create 500M of cut and cover tunnel where it is needed?

larger version of image below: http://i46.tinypic.com/20prm9x.jpg

where the new tunnel would pass is higher elevation anyway so by doing such a thing, the track could be around the same level as the open sections to the sides instead of having to climb up a hill if it were on the surface.

p.s, ignore the error where the eglinton line abruptly ends before jane street. i forgot to draw the line further.

 

[Eug]

^ That sounds reasonable. It does seem that there is some logic to the TTC decisions, even if not everyone agrees with them.

Meanwhile, I really hope they upgrade those transfer points though. Kennedy didn't impress me, and things can only get more complicated once the Crosstown line gets added.

 

[RedRocket191]

Kennedy is getting rebuilt. The RT will go into the basement.

 

[hkric88]

Kennedy is getting rebuilt. The RT will go into the basement.

Last I heard it was being brought down to grade, at level with the current bus terminal, with the station extended east to meet it. Has this changed?

 

[RedRocket191]

Close enough. Point is it's not going to look like the way it looks like today.

 

[Eug]

How much of Kennedy Station getting rebuilt?

 

[RedRocket191]

The connection between the RT (when it was still going to use Bombardier ART technology) was to be moved at or below grade, rather than the several storeys above grade as it is today. It's unclear how this will change if the line is converted to LRT, but the principle will remain the same.

 

[W. K. Lis]

York South-Weston Councillors Frances Nunziata and Frank Di Giorgio are inviting the public to a community meeting Thursday, Feb. 11 to discuss proposals with the TTC for the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) between Keele and Jane streets. The TTC will clarify the effects of running the Eglinton LRT above ground vs. below ground for the section between Black Creek Drive and Jane Street.

The meeting will be held on Thursday, February 11, 2010, at the York Civic Centre, 2700 Eglinton Ave. West, between 7-9 p.m.

 

[Fresh Start]

I hope that a lot of people attend and make their concerns known. An exclusive right-of-way needs to be continuous through the community of Mt Dennis in order to sustain optimal speeds and minimal impacts/disruptions during the construction period. The crossing between Weston and Keele ought to be via an elevated guideway (why the TTC feels it necessary to have an at-grade surface stop at Hwy 400 i.e. Black Creek, I do not know). A station juxtaposed between Weston and Black Creek is superior as it allows the most direct access to the Georgetown/Airport GO corridor. To connect to Mt Dennis/Weston Road proper, a short underground walkway can be fitted in. I know it adds to the cost, but the City cannot afford to skim on such a vital area; not when 500 m to the west lies vast wastelands where the TTC plans on building an interchange station. Sending Jane North inbound traffic through to the end of the subway tunnel at Mt Dennis would minimize the number of transfers and backtracking customers would have to undertake; since the majority of inbound trips aren't destined for points along Jane itself south of Eglinton but rather quickest access to the subway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Mt. Dennis meeting, Februay 11th, on the Eglinton LRT discussed the effects of running the LRT above ground vs. below ground between Black Creek Drive and Jane Street. Basically, both above and below options will exportation around a couple dozen properties. Where the underground portion ends, it requires a crossover, the station, followed by a pocket track. If Weston Road is the last underground station, in the west, it will need extra width in the cut-and-cover for the underground crossover and pocket track, for the automated train operation to work properly..

Personally, I don't understand why they need pocket tracks at Weston, especially since the Kodak LRV storage yard will be between the Weston and Black Creek stations.

BTW. This is the first I heard of Automatic Train Operation for the Eglinton LRT subway portion. I think it is only an option at the moment. I guess that means the train could leave without the driver as he takes his coffee break.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Transit City - Eglinton-Crosstown EA and Construction

At each of the last underground stations on the Eglinton LRT, there will be a crossover section, followed by the station itself, and a pocket track following. This is to allow for Automated Train Operation in the subway section. In the above ground section, the driver will take over and operate the train. (Insert comment about coffee break here.)

Don Mills:

Keele:

Should Weston become a underground station, the crossover section and pocket tracks would be redesigned to be under Weston. At the moment, the preferred option by Metrolinx is for an above ground stop for Weston. The preferred option by the Mount Dennis Community is for an underground station.

 

[Ansem]

Residents ask TTC for LRT tunnel through Mount Dennis

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...s-ask-ttc-for-lrt-tunnel-through-mount-dennis



Mount Dennis residents are asking the TTC on Wednesday to promise them something their neighbours in Weston have already won from another transit agency.

The residents want the TTC to extend the tunnelled portion of the Eglinton light rail line to avoid building what they say would be a barrier down the middle of their community.

It's similar to the argument that residents in Weston used to persuade Metrolinx to tunnel part of the Georgetown GO line under their community.

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT is expected to run about 33 kilometres between Kennedy Station and Pearson International Airport. While about 10 kilometres in the middle of the line will be underground, the Mount Dennis residents want the underground portion extended from east of Black Creek Dr. to just east of Jane St.

Running the LRT at street level — the TTC's preference — would turn Weston Rd. and Eglinton Ave. W. into a five-point intersection, creating an “out-of-scale road allowance†and blocking traffic onto several sidestreets, said Rick Ciccarelli, a member of the Mount Dennis Community Association executive.

“It does nothing but separate and divide and put a traffic throughway through the middle of our community,†he said on Tuesday.

Whether there's a tunnel or the LRT tracks remain at street level, the TTC plan will mean the expropriation of about 20 houses in the area, said Frances Nunziata (York South Weston), one of about 20 politicians and residents expected to appear before the councillors on the Toronto Transit Commission Wednesday.

Those houses stand on land the TTC sold to a developer about 10 years ago, she said. Now, the homes will be destroyed so the TTC can move back in.

“They’re telling these people that just bought these new homes, 'We’re going to expropriate your property.' You can imagine the residents being so angry about it and very emotional and you can’t blame them,†she said.

“I think tunnelling is the best option. I know it’s going to cost more but if you’re going to do it, do it right. Twenty years from now the city might decide they’re going to build a subway. Look at what happened with the St. Clair (streetcar) right-of-way. They went way over budget. We support the Eglinton line but why should everything be dumped in our community?†said Nunziata.

Although tunnelling could cost between $100 million to $300 million more, the long-term social costs could be far greater, she said.

In addition to the $4.6 billion the province has committed to the Eglinton LRT, the centrepiece of Toronto's Transit City plan, the TTC also wants to build a carhouse on the old Kodak lands in Mount Dennis.

But the underground option in the Mount Dennis area “is no longer being considered,†said Ryan Bissonnette, spokesperson for the TTC's Transit City LRT plan.

Although the Weston GO station on the Georgetown line will be too far north at Lawrence to create a transit hub, “The Eglinton LRT protects for a future GO Transit stop,†said Bissonnette.

Ciccarelli says the residents just want more time to work with the TTC's design staff to find a compromise. But if they can't get the commission to agree to it, they will appeal to Ontario's environment minister.

“We’re trying to be reasonable. This is a lower income area, the need for road allowance is why they’re tunneling in Leaside, why aren’t they tunneling here? All we’re asking is to be taken seriously and work with a solution that fits with our community,†he said.

“The TTC should look at an additional stop at Eglinton and Black Creek to be a hub with the Weston GO station. Right now they’re not considering it. Unfortuantely it seems we don’t think in the next 10 or 20 years. We’re just concentrating on today and that’s where our error is.â€

The first phase of the Eglinton line, which is supposed to begin construction later this year, will open in 2016 with the entire line expected to be working by 2020. It is expected to attract about 53 million riders annually by 2021.

The TTC has until March 12 to submit its environmental report on the Eglinton Crosstown line to the province, according to a staff report before the transit commission Wednesday.

The Eglinton LRT, like those on Sheppard Ave. E. and Finch Ave. W., will be operated by the TTC but owned by the province, since Queen's Park has agreed to pay the municipal portion of the projects.