Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[sixrings]

sorry if this has been asked before, but are the tunnels large enough that this line could be upgraded to full subway at some point in the future?

Yes, but all the numbers say that wouldnt make sense. When the DRL is built up to Eglinton then people will naturally transfer at the first oppertunity rather then using the university or younge lines to get downtown. As a result people will be transferring around don mills and eglinton on the east and potentially weston or keele in the west. Essentially there will be less or the same amount of ppl in the future in the central portion of the lrt. As a result why would you ever need to convert it.

 

[nfitz]

sorry if this has been asked before, but are the tunnels large enough that this line could be upgraded to full subway at some point in the future?

The tunnel diameter for Eglinton is a bit larger than the tunnel diameter for the Spadina subway extension - because of the overhead caternary.

 

[datamouse]

Platform length is the real problem for subway conversion. The Crosstown will be able to accommodate 90m trains at max (three LRT cars) versus how six car subway trains take around 140m.

 

[smallspy]

I had thought the 165 Weston North only went to the Wilson Station on the Spadina line. Thanks for pointing that out. Stand corrected.

I agree with changing the 165 Weston North route to have it terminate at the Mt. Dennis/Weston Road Station on the Crosstown LRT. It would cut some travel time for most through riders, though some maybe inconvenienced if they needed to stay on Wilson Avenue. The turns at the Weston/Albion/Wilson intersection currently take the 165 buses, what seems like, forever to make. The route change would also cut distance to a rapid transit line from 7.2 km (to Wilson Station) to 5.4 km (to Mt. Dennis/Weston Road Station).

Then again, the TTC could keep the 89 Weston bus as it is now providing local service, but change the 165 Weston North into an express bus south of Wilson, stopping at (Church?), Lawrence, Jane, and Mt. Dennis/Weston Station.

And how would you be providing the extra bus service needed between Weston and Yonge on Wilson?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[W. K. Lis]

And how would you be providing the extra bus service needed between Weston and Yonge on Wilson?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

There will be buses available when the LRT replaces the 32 Eglinton West and 34 Eglinton East buses. They'll be reallocated to other bus routes that need them, including additional buses on all the 96 Wilson buses and its branches.

 

[gweed123]

There will be buses available when the LRT replaces the 32 Eglinton West and 34 Eglinton East buses. They'll be reallocated to other bus routes that need them, including additional buses on all the 96 Wilson buses and its branches.

Likewise with the buses from Sheppard East and Finch West.

Also, the TTC is going to need quite a few more buses in the years immediately preceding that in order to handle the passenger load from the SRT shutdown. Those buses will likely need to be purchased, because they won't be able to be transferred from other routes. That's going to lead to a pretty large surplus in buses. Hopefully the SRT buses will all be artics, which will be able to be transferred to other routes once the SLRT is open.

 

[nfitz]

Platform length is the real problem for subway conversion. The Crosstown will be able to accommodate 90m trains at max (three LRT cars) versus how six car subway trains take around 140m.

The Sheppard subway trains are only 92 metres long.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Likewise with the buses from Sheppard East and Finch West.

Also, the TTC is going to need quite a few more buses in the years immediately preceding that in order to handle the passenger load from the SRT shutdown. Those buses will likely need to be purchased, because they won't be able to be transferred from other routes. That's going to lead to a pretty large surplus in buses. Hopefully the SRT buses will all be artics, which will be able to be transferred to other routes once the SLRT is open.

Buses have a life expectancy of 12 years, but with luck they could retire at age 15. Today, its 2012, the opening of the Crosstown is a maybe by 2020 (8 years).

Rail transit, in the form of streetcars, light rail, and heavy rail (Subway) have a life expectancy of 30 years. The first prototype CLRV was built in 1977, though production versions arrivals lasted until 1981. The CLRVs are way past retirement age already, but still moving. The ALRVs finished started arriving by 1989.

 

[nfitz]

Rail transit, in the form of streetcars, light rail, and heavy rail (Subway) have a life expectancy of 30 years. The first prototype CLRV was built in 1977, though production versions arrivals lasted until 1981. The CLRVs are way past retirement age already, but still moving. The ALRVs finished started arriving by 1989.

30 to 40 years. It's not unusual for subway equipment to be stretched out to 40 years. Or longer sometimes ... Montreal has yet to retire any of its subway equipment, ever ... and when the first equipment is retired starting in 2014 (if they stick to schedule) it will be pushing 50 years old, and over 50 years old by the time the last unit is retired in 2017. PCC equipment was over 40 years old when it was retired. In London the Victoria line operated with it's original equipment from when it opened to 2011 ... a lot of the cars had 1967 stamped near the doors ... so well over 40 years.

So the CLRVs aren't well past retirement age - and had the cancelled program gone ahead to extend their lifespan, they could have hit 50 years easy.

There's some pretty extreme examples out there as well. The electrified Deux-Montagnes commuter line in Montreal operated some of it's original 1918 stock through to 1995. Almost 77 years old.

 

[smallspy]

There will be buses available when the LRT replaces the 32 Eglinton West and 34 Eglinton East buses. They'll be reallocated to other bus routes that need them, including additional buses on all the 96 Wilson buses and its branches.

You seem to have missed the point. The reason why the 165 runs with the 96 is because there is extra service needed on that part of the route. Running additional buses on the various 96 branches would result in additional buses where they are not necessarily needed.

This is also why you see all of those routes west of Leslie on Eglinton Ave. East, or why the 81 and 25 run parallel along Pape Ave. Or any other of the number of locations in the City like that.

30 to 40 years. It's not unusual for subway equipment to be stretched out to 40 years. Or longer sometimes ... Montreal has yet to retire any of its subway equipment, ever ... and when the first equipment is retired starting in 2014 (if they stick to schedule) it will be pushing 50 years old, and over 50 years old by the time the last unit is retired in 2017. PCC equipment was over 40 years old when it was retired. In London the Victoria line operated with it's original equipment from when it opened to 2011 ... a lot of the cars had 1967 stamped near the doors ... so well over 40 years.

So the CLRVs aren't well past retirement age - and had the cancelled program gone ahead to extend their lifespan, they could have hit 50 years easy.

There's some pretty extreme examples out there as well. The electrified Deux-Montagnes commuter line in Montreal operated some of it's original 1918 stock through to 1995. Almost 77 years old.

It depends entirely on how the vehicles are built, and how they are used.

In Toronto, electric-powered vehicles are designed to last 30 years. Sure, they can get more life out of them (take the PCCs, H4 subway cars, trolley buses and yes, the CLRVs), but it will cost more and more to keep older, well-used equipment running. So, they run them less and less as they get older and they get relegated to rush hour serivce where they may only see a third of the amount of miles as something in everyday use. And the same applies to a lot of other properties.

In the case of Montreal and their subway cars, despite having given them very thorough rebuilds they have a pretty ridiculously comprehensive maintenance schedule to keep them running, and it probably costs them twice as much keep them running as if they had modern equipment. And yet, their buses lie fallow by comparison....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From insidetoronto.com (Scarborough Mirror), at this link:

Transit agencies request year-long closure of Allen Road in 2014


Metrolinx and the TTC want Toronto city council to approve the closure of Allen Road at Eglinton Avenue in 2014 to speed up construction of the Eglinton light-rail line.

The transit agencies are behind a proposal that would see access to Allen Road northbound from Eglinton Avenue West remain completely closed for all of 2014. If the idea is approved by city council this fall, the Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown line, which will run from Black Creek Drive in the west to Kennedy subway station in the east along Eglinton, would begin operating one year sooner, in 2019, according to a Metrolinx presentation made at a construction update meeting in North York June 27.

Access to the northbound Allen at Lawrence Avenue would remain open.

The presentation said closing off the Allen at Eglinton would speed up tunneling of the underground portion of the line, allow more space for construction staging and allow 150 trucks to enter the area per day.

Metrolinx spokesperson Vanessa Thomas said while the proposal merited consideration from the city, no decision is imminent.

“We’re still a far way from this occurring,” said Thomas Monday afternoon. “We’re proposing this temporary closure In order to help with construction impacts.”

The proposal received a mixed response at the meeting, said David Nagler, TTC community relations manager.

“There was no consensus and we certainly had a mix of reactions on the idea,” Nagler said.

Nagler said the intention is to select a construction company to take care of the tunneling underground, which runs east from Keele Street to Laird Drive, before a decision is made on closing Allen Road. The winning company, which will be selected via a public tender, is expected to be named by September.

The suggested Allen Road closure isn’t the only local street that will have to close temporarily because of construction along Eglinton for the LRT line.

In the next three years, 10 streets in the area will be barred to traffic, with closures ranging from as little as four days to 17 weeks. The first shutdown takes place at Yarrow Road and runs for seven weeks from late 2012 to 2013.

City staff is scheduled to report to the public works committee on the proposal in the autumn, which if adopted will then be debated by city council for approval in the later part of 2012.

Eglinton-Lawrence Councillor Josh Colle could not be reached for comment.

Confirmed Temporary Road Closures at Eglinton Avenue West due to Crosstown LRT construction

2012 to 2013:

Yarrow Road (seven weeks)

2013:

Kane Avenue (five weeks)

Little Boulevard (four days)

Strathearn Road (11 weeks)

Flanders Road (11 weeks)

Peveril Hill North Road (nine weeks)

Chaplin Crescent Southbound (nine weeks)

Latimer Avenue (nine weeks)

2014:

Highbourne Road (nine weeks)

2015:

Maxwell Road (17 weeks)

Yarrow Road is south, one block west of Keele Street.

Kane Avenue is south, 300 m east of Keele Street.

Little Boulevard is just north, opposite Prospect Cemetery.

Strathearn Road is just south, opposite the northbound ramp to Allen Road.

Flanders Road is south, one block east of Strathearn Road and Allen Road.

Peveril Hill North Road is south, one block west of Bathurst Street.

Latimer Avenue is north, one block east of Chaplin Crescent.

Highbourne Road is south, one block east of Avenue Road and one block west of Oriole Parkway.

Maxwell Road is south, two blocks west of Yonge Street or one block west of Duplex Avenue.

That's it for now.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I love it how the video they released recently showed the TBMS tunnelling directly below eglinton & yarrow, and the narrator talking about how it would not disturb the surface.

 

[Platform 27]

^The video said the TBMs won't disturb the surface. And they won't. It's the station headwall construction that will.

 

[Transportfan]

You seem to have missed the point. The reason why the 165 runs with the 96 is because there is extra service needed on that part of the route. Running additional buses on the various 96 branches would result in additional buses where they are not necessarily needed.

I thought the reason was because of convenience to riders headed to the subway, as Keele station is a long way down via a diagonal street. That's basically what Transit Toronto says.

 

[Red October]

^The video said the TBMs won't disturb the surface. And they won't. It's the station headwall construction that will.

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.