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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Sunnyside said:
I'm not going to address the comparison to Line 1 downtown because it's self-evidently apples and steak. We are in the burbs. Still, for Finch, the case is much clearer; demand exists, and the trip generators are in place (straight along Finch). This is all conjecture though; further unlike Finch, most of the connections for this line don't exist yet. We have no idea what demand will be like to or from them.

here's my angle, it's nothing new. While on the one hand, I understand that this is meant for local trips, on the other we aren't exactly building a cheap Parisian tramway. This is going to cost a lot, and its worth asking if this is the best use of the money for rail transit specifically. As for determining the best mode... if this is to be for local travel, I'm not convinced there is enough demand to justify LRT over BRT. But if alot of demand is coming from connections, then both might fail at moving people quickly enough. The mode choice seems to be a recognition of that, but completely compromises the network utility that could exist for most subway riders. GO riders have a better prospect here I'll admit.

Rapid Transit here is a good idea, don't get me wrong; this simply doesn't seem the best way to do it for those nearby or city-wide. For instance, I am not sold on this being a great deal for connecting Malvern, but admittedly I am not from the area so I can't say for certain.

In brief... you/we need to look at the tradeoffs here. The province certainly has...
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At $250 million/km ($4.6 billion), I'm not convinced there aren't other routes that don't also need some kind of relief. If the cost came down, to say, $100 million/km ($1.8 billion), it would be worth the money.

Maybe we need a thread for construction costs (do we have one?) - EWLRT, YNSE, SSE, OL ...

drum118 said:
Streetcars built Toronto, LRT can do the same thing for areas that need to grow while buses will not. PPL prefer steel rail over rubber wheels for a smoother ride. Then there is the operation cost for both systems with LRT winning so long it not underground.

With an LRT system, you can say headway is every 5 minutes using one LRV and ridership grows, you add a 2nd or 3rd car using one driver. A BRT cannot maintain a 5 minute headway as ridership increase, that you need to reduce the headway by adding more buses and drivers to the point headway could be less than a minute like the Ottawa BRT that where it is bumper to bumper at peak time and have seen it first hand..

Seen a number of systems in the US and you have to shake your head why an LRT was built in the first place when just a local bus was good enough in the first place. Ridership was non existing at all hours. Even a BRT would have been better.

One has to look at the orange line in LA that should be an LRT, but strong opposition kill the LRT plan.
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The business case says 3,700 PPHD. Which is high enough to probably justify rail, but it's never going to be Ottawa - this is about 60-70 TPH, which is mostly just expensive.

GO RER may also change the calculus on this; the business case assumes 15 mins headways on Lakeshore East, but I'm almost certain it will be better than that, as will Sheppard East. This may decrease or increase demand, I'm not entirely sure.

Tangentially, this is why we need long-term planning that gives us a better set of assumptions to build transit cases off of and leaves space in design (see: Kennedy station)
 
DirectionNorth said:
At $250 million/km ($4.6 billion), I'm not convinced there aren't other routes that don't also need some kind of relief. If the cost came down, to say, $100 million/km ($1.8 billion), it would be worth the money.

Maybe we need a thread for construction costs (do we have one?) - EWLRT, YNSE, SSE, OL ...


The business case says 3,700 PPHD. Which is high enough to probably justify rail, but it's never going to be Ottawa - this is about 60-70 TPH, which is mostly just expensive.

GO RER may also change the calculus on this; the business case assumes 15 mins headways on Lakeshore East, but I'm almost certain it will be better than that, as will Sheppard East. This may decrease or increase demand, I'm not entirely sure.

Tangentially, this is why we need long-term planning that gives us a better set of assumptions to build transit cases off of and leaves space in design (see: Kennedy station)
Click to expand...
With the amount development on the books today, under construction as well what could happen, the business case is out of date and will be a lot higher. There was a vision what may happen to the corridor with what coming down the road exceeding it.

Between the RER and the OL, travel pattern will change to something different than what existed today. If we can built some sort of a 15 minute city, travel will change even more. Regardless of a 15 minute city, people will be traveling outside it for numerous reasons where ridership will exceed the business case.
 
innsertnamehere said:
It's not necessarily a big deal. Could just be a slight misalignment of track - as far as I know the trains have consistently been running end to end for a while now.

Part of the last bits of works before opening will be making small deficiency corrections like that.
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well.. if a full replacement has to occur that would mean more tearing up brand new concrete once more...
still waiting for that 3 month notice...
 
evandyk said:
This can't be true, can it?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1791500090273652942
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It's not true.

What the crews have been doing of late is LIDAR scanning every single point of the ROW. They do this to ensure clearances around the dynamic envelope of the trains, locations of platform edges and signals, catenary, etc. Once they have this, they will be able to hand that information over to Metrolinx (and the TTC) as one of the final steps required prior to the actual final sign-off on the line.

The crews doing that scanning do not have the technology to discern how far out the rails might be, if they were out. The LIDAR equipment is accurate, but not as accurate for the rail profile, crosslevel, etc. as the specialized equipment that is used for that task. That equipment has already been used and to the best of my knowledge has verified the rails' alignment.

If somehow the rails where so far out of whack as to require immediate replacement, they would not be running trains at the frequencies and speeds that they have been.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
It's not true.

What the crews have been doing of late is LIDAR scanning every single point of the ROW. They do this to ensure clearances around the dynamic envelope of the trains, locations of platform edges and signals, catenary, etc. Once they have this, they will be able to hand that information over to Metrolinx (and the TTC) as one of the final steps required prior to the actual final sign-off on the line.

The crews doing that scanning do not have the technology to discern how far out the rails might be, if they were out. The LIDAR equipment is accurate, but not as accurate for the rail profile, crosslevel, etc. as the specialized equipment that is used for that task. That equipment has already been used and to the best of my knowledge has verified the rails' alignment.

If somehow the rails where so far out of whack as to require immediate replacement, they would not be running trains at the frequencies and speeds that they have been.

Dan
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makes sense... then again that lady was talking to an individual worker on the line who probably doesnt know the full picture and was making assumptions...
 
cplchanb said:
makes sense... then again that lady was talking to an individual worker on the line who probably doesnt know the full picture and was making assumptions...
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For additional context I had a skim through her profile. She’s not just some twitter troll but the majority of her tweets are rather politically motivated. Not meaning to dismiss her for it but you may regard her statements as exaggerative or sensational… perhaps embellished?
 
reinventingthewheel said:
For additional context I had a skim through her profile. She’s not just some twitter troll but the majority of her tweets are rather politically motivated. Not meaning to dismiss her for it but you may regard her statements as exaggerative or sensational… perhaps embellished?
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If there really was such a huge problem like that with the tracks they wouldn't have been testing with higher frequency over this past weekend. They've already done a profile and gauge analysis of the tracks and while there was an issue months ago on the surface section they fixed that during an early bout of warm weather before spring started
 

Daytime and Overnight Track Grinding on Eglinton Avenue East between Leslie Street and Kennedy Road​

As early as Wednesday, May 22, 2024​

1717686a-2049-a066-8274-5ff7395561f9.jpg
What Work is Taking Place?
As early as Wednesday, May 22, 2024, crews will be performing overnight track grinding works on Eglinton Avenue East, between Leslie Street and Kennedy Road.

Crews will move along the guideway performing work on the eastbound and westbound tracks. Periodic turn restrictions and lane reductions may be required while work takes place in the intersections.

A Traffic Control Personnel and/or Paid Duty Officer will be present while work takes place in the intersections. One lane of traffic will be maintained at all times on Eglinton Avenue East.

This work is expected to take place during the daytime and overnight between 3:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m., for approximately 1 month. Upon completion of this work, periodic short-term lane reductions may be required on Eglinton Avenue East to facilitate special activities.

What to Expect
Daytime and overnight noise from construction activities, including grinding metal, can be expected. Crews will move along the guideway performing work on the eastbound and westbound tracks.

Periodic turn restrictions and lane reductions may be required while work takes place in the intersection. A Traffic Control Personnel and/or Paid Duty Officer will be present while work takes place in the intersection.

One lane of traffic in each direction will be maintained at all times on Eglinton Avenue East. Expect delays while traveling through the area.

HOURS OF WORK
  • As early as Wednesday, May 22, 2024, for approximately 1 month.
  • Work is expected to take place between 3:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.
  • Work May be rescheduled due to inclement weather or unforeseen circumstances.
  • Work may be longer or shorter than expected.
TRAFFIC DETAILS
  • Periodic turn restrictions and lane reductions may be required while work takes place in the intersections.
  • A Traffic Control Personnel and/or Paid Duty Officer will be present while work takes place in the intersections.
PEDESTRIAN DETAILS
  • No changes to the current pedestrian routes are expected as a result of this work.
TRANSIT INFORMATION
  • Access to TTC will be maintained at all times.
  • Please visit www.ttc.ca for more information.
 
allengeorge said:
Is that track grinding related to the info in the tweet above?
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Probably not.

It may be as simple as conditioning the surface of the rail in preparation for the ramping up to mock service.

It may also be that they discovered vibration issues in places, and grinding a new profile into the rail head could resolve that.

Dan
 
jordanmkasla2009 said:
The speed limit for cars on the section of Eglinton Ave from Brentcliffe Rd to Kennedy Rd is 50 km/h. the LRT is limited to 60 km/h on the surface section (from the portal east of Brentcliffe Rd to the portal west of Kennedy Rd.)
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The TTC will just operate at 50 km/h even when 60 is allowed.
 
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