Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Natika33]

I have tailbone damage from having to stand for 40 minutes on a crush loaded bus and trying my utmost to have as little of my body jutting out as possible!

Riding buses would be significantly more enjoyable from me if they had empty standee spots across from the rear doors like they did on the high floor buses. Standing on a rush hour bus, always in someone's way, I always feel like such an ass.

Same! No matter where I try to stand, I always feel like I'm in someone's way. Wish they also had racks above the sitters (on subways too) so our bags didn't have to add to the space obstruction.

 

[zang]

There's probably just more opportunity to get up to higher speeds on Mississauga's suburban streets than Toronto's more urban streets.

I get the feeling there’s also the incentive to have a bit more “rest” time at terminal stops. I’ve observed a number of times buses running well ahead of posted schedules. The drivers don’t seem to like slowing things down to keep on track and suddenly they’re 3-4 minutes ahead on a route that only comes every 20-30 minutes. I’ve seen an elderly woman thrown to the ground as the driver realized there were people at a stop he was about to fly by at what felt like 70kms an hour. Hell, I even had one driver completely ignore a woman running towards a bus waving her arms frantically before it left its stop, all so the bus could run a yellow light.

I’m rather glad my mother-in-law recently moved back to Quebec, so I don’t have to deal with MiWay anymore.

 

[canucks83]

This board is hung up on speed when that is not the goal in the first place. You will find many systems in Europe as well NA that are not fast as Crosstown or Finch, but are getting riders to/from where they want to go in the first place. Getting people to use transit is the goal and making it easier form them to get them where they want to go to is the goal. Transit will never beat the car, but will help them to have a less stressful travel time, the able to read, listen to music, play games on their phone, chill out and do the media thing.

Doing a trip that is faster than today is what riders want. Again, not everyone is going end to end, but places alone the line. When I do Line 2 from end to end, it is an 45 minute trip and even if it was 50 minutes, that no big deal as it will be far faster than using the bus along doing a number of transfers.

It is a different story doing intercity travel where speed is wanted, but you will find a lot of route in Europe are being built for 200km along with what exist. There are a number that are 300 plus and small in number. In some place, 160 will be the best you will see.

Lets wait and see what will take place for Crosstown in real action than speculate what will take place when it finally see service.

This is exactly the problem with many rail projects in Ontario. Speed should be one of the goal and I am stun to hear it’s not the goal to make transit faster and more convenient. I purchase my first car when travel time to get to work was not reasonable and I am sure I am not alone. For the Crosstown will wait and see because could be up to 60% faster as per projection. See if it hold. But Finch being only 20% faster as per Metrolinx (not considering the unavoidable normal delays of every public system) it’s bad and Toronto should ask for better. Toronto deserve more.

 

[drum118]

This is exactly the problem with many rail projects in Ontario. Speed should be one of the goal and I am stun to hear it’s not the goal to make transit faster and more convenient. I purchase my first car when travel time to get to work was not reasonable and I am sure I am not alone. For the Crosstown will wait and see because could be up to 60% faster as per projection. See if it hold. But Finch being only 20% faster as per Metrolinx (not considering the unavoidable normal delays of every public system) it’s bad and Toronto should ask for better. Toronto deserve more.

You need to ride system both in NA and Europe and you will find speed is not a factor for grade level running even in ROW. There are a few where the stations are over a mile apart or more, not the 500-600 spacing that are faster.

Take a trip to KW and ride that system to compare the speed to street ROW, RR Corridor and other ROW to see they are not the same. Even Buffalo and Detroit are 2 other system that are only a few hour away for a day trip with Detroit being an overnight trip depending where you are coming from.

The lack of transit priority is the big issue for transit in Toronto.

 

[canucks83]

You need to ride system both in NA and Europe and you will find speed is not a factor for grade level running even in ROW. There are a few where the stations are over a mile apart or more, not the 500-600 spacing that are faster.

Take a trip to KW and ride that system to compare the speed to street ROW, RR Corridor and other ROW to see they are not the same. Even Buffalo and Detroit are 2 other system that are only a few hour away for a day trip with Detroit being an overnight trip depending where you are coming from.

The lack of transit priority is the big issue for transit in Toronto.

To be fair my issue mostly with non grade separated transit then the speed of trains. I am from Montreal where we just got the REM. Ontario Line would compare but smaller in scale and wish Toronto were building more like the REM. Not a fan of LRT’s but will go to Toronto to try them once they are finally open and hope to be wrong.

 

[drum118]

To be fair my issue mostly with non grade separated transit then the speed of trains. I am from Montreal where we just got the REM. Ontario Line would compare but smaller in scale and wish Toronto were building more like the REM. Not a fan of LRT’s but will go to Toronto to try them once they are finally open and hope to be wrong.

I rode REM on opening weekend and not impress with it. Have seen it being built the last few years in the boondocks' and not impress sorry to say.

 

[nfitz]

I've never seen anyone fall and be knocked unconscious when a streetcar did a sudden lane change.

To be fair my issue mostly with non grade separated transit then the speed of trains. I am from Montreal where we just got the REM. Ontario Line would compare but smaller in scale and wish Toronto were building more like the REM.

I'm not sure the REM is really that comparable to Ontario Line. It's just that we'll integrated into the urban structure, other than Central, McGill, and the Blue Line interchanges.

The Ontario Line is much more urban, more comparable to existing Toronto and Montreal subway lines. At least the first phase. There's certainly a lot more planned, potentially a loop around Toronto up to the 407 and then west to Pearson and back downtown. With branches to Oshawa and Oakville. That may be bigger than REM, though I don't know what future phases are envisioned there. Equipment might be similar, but not the network and operations.

Much of REM is more comparable to the 5 (maybe 6 if Milton gets funded) GO rail lines they are upgrading to electrified frequent service with more urban stations. Lakeshore GO will be a very different beast with trains every 4 or 5 minutes.

 

[canucks83]

I've never seen anyone fall and be knocked unconscious when a streetcar did a sudden lane change.

I'm not sure the REM is really that comparable to Ontario Line. It's just that we'll integrated into the urban structure, other than Central, McGill, and the Blue Line interchanges.

The Ontario Line is much more urban, more comparable to existing Toronto and Montreal subway lines. At least the first phase. There's certainly a lot more planned, potentially a loop around Toronto up to the 407 and then west to Pearson and back downtown. With branches to Oshawa and Oakville. That may be bigger than REM, though I don't know what future phases are envisioned there. Equipment might be similar, but not the network and operations.

Much of REM is more comparable to the 5 (maybe 6 if Milton gets funded) GO rail lines they are upgrading to electrified frequent service with more urban stations. Lakeshore GO will be a very different beast with trains every 4 or 5 minutes.

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc. GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time. Like Ontario Line, REM will connect areas that were challenging to access in the city. REM and Ontario line are much closer peoples realize. However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed. I consider GO Unique in Canada with no comparator. It’s trully a Toronto gem. To go back with Eglinton I fear the non grade separated portion will hold back the line. But it’s definitely a project we will have to wait and see. If one project can prove me wrong it’s this one. Cannot wait to test it.

 

[afransen]

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc. GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time. Like Ontario Line, REM will connect areas that were challenging to access in the city. REM and Ontario line are much closer peoples realize. However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed. I consider GO Unique in Canada with no comparator. It’s trully a Toronto gem. To go back with Eglinton I fear the non grade separated portion will hold back the line. But it’s definitely a project we will have to wait and see. If one project can prove me wrong it’s this one. Cannot wait to test it.

REM is far lower capacity, too. It's more of a regional service than a true subway/metro like Ontario Line. It's an interesting model for Toronto to consider for certain applications.

 

[dowlingm]

The operator probably prefers 80kph max. They can run ~2 to 3 fewer vehicles/drivers and maintain the same overall line capacity.

Irrespective of operator preference, 60km/h is the maximum permitted speed on the Eglinton surface section, by direction of city council.

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2021/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-164884.pdf

Same for Finch West: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2021/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-168557.pdf

I do wonder how well LFLRVs could sustain all day every day 80km/h running/accelerating/braking over an entire alignment before wear and tear became an issue.

 

[nfitz]

I do wonder how well LFLRVs could sustain all day every day 80km/h running/accelerating/braking over an entire alignment before wear and tear became an issue.

How is the wear and tear on those cars that have been operating at 70 km/hr for a few years now?

 

[nfitz]

I compare it to Ontario Line because the frequency will be approx the same, driver less, screen door, same kind of trains (somewhat) acting like a metro etc.

Ontario Line 3 is a Metro, as they call them in some other places. Even the official REM website brands REM as LRT rather than Subway. Though I'm not sure I agree with that.

GO not frequent enough at least not for a long time.

Not the entire network - but they should have 85 km of the Lakeshore line up before the Ontario Line opens. But it's true that the other 116 km of Lakeshore isn't happening anytime soon. And it's not clear what timeframe for frequent service is on 125 km for the 3 electrified lines.

I'm not sure why the Ontario Line is not comparable, 7 years from opening, but GO Lakeshore isn't.

However Ontario Line smaller in scope with no future phases confirmed.

It's a 16-km subway line - at least for now. If much of the more suburban 120-km of extension get's built, then maybe it would compare to the REM. But only one (well three) of the 50+ proposed projects in the 25-year plan.

If you count Line 3 as REM-like, then we are looking at 225 km of frequent service that's under construction. With at least another 170 km to come in the 2040s or 2050s (hopefully).

 

[dowlingm]

How is the wear and tear on those cars that have been operating at 70 km/hr for a few years now?

Can you be specific? I assume you don’t mean Ottawa given how poorly they have performed in service to date.

 

[drum118]

The REM is not an LRT though it is call one, but a light metro. OL is a full metro and the same system that is in Copenhagen that we rode in 2022. The stations are far apart and provide the speed that some want for an RT line.

This is the real speed of Copenhagen line outside to give s sense to the speed after leaving the airport. If the seating is the same for OL as this line, great rail fan seats.

 

[nfitz]

Can you be specific? I assume you don’t mean Ottawa given how poorly they have performed in service to date.

Ottawa uses a different type of car as this line.

As we've discussed frequently, Waterloo uses the same cars, and they've been in service there for years.