Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Admiral Beez]

I genuinely believe that Metrolinx watched the Ottawa mess and will not open the line until it is absolutely ready. They have taken enough Ls with the delays already, and I am sure they want the opening to be a win.

As they observed Ottawa’s experience, Metrolinx likely thought the O-Train was absolutely ready. But in addition to thirteen other faults, they’d not taken into account how the passengers would interact with the doors. There will be something on the Crosstown that Metrolinx has overlooked that causes a shutdown after a brief opening. This organization does not have a record of seeing the whole picture before acting.

 

[allengeorge]

Metrolinx thought the O-Train was absolutely ready.

Metrolinx did not have anything to do with the O-Train.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Metrolinx did not have anything to do with the O-Train.

Right. I’ll edit that better. What I meant was…

“In many cases, Metrolinx chose the same advisers, contract language, companies and trains that ended up contributing to Ottawa's problem-plagued system, which opened more than a year behind schedule in September 2019.”

Assuming the above CBC report is accurate, as an observer, Metrolinx must have thought the O-Train was well planned and executed. Otherwise, Metrolinx would have told its project teams to stay away from anything and anyone related to the O-Train.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-light-rail-inquiry-metrolinx-toronto-eglinton-1.6672970

 

[nfitz]

What's the door in interaction issue?

 

[crs1026]

What's the door in interaction issue?

Newbie Ottawa riders thought that they could force the doors to stop closing - or reopen - by brute force. Lots of people who didn't want to miss a train and tried to get on after the doors started to close. Not comp,etely unreasonable if you don't know the difference between an LRT door and an elevator door.

I don't think that will be a problem in Toronto, as most riders will be more familiar with streetcar and subway and Go car doors. That's not to say that Toronto riders are angels, but in general they have seen more things and understand the norms/limits a bit better.

- Paul

 

[Admiral Beez]

Newbie Ottawa riders thought that they could force the doors to stop closing - or reopen - by brute force. Lots of people who didn't want to miss a train and tried to get on after the doors started to close.

There's a fix for that. Doors that closed with gusto.

 

[evandyk]

Frequency on the crosstown should be better than the O-train, which reduces door charging too.

 

[smallspy]

Since it bears repeating.....

The Crosstown will be operated by the TTC, not Metrolinx (or their contractor). For all of their problems, the TTC has lots and lots of experience opening and operating rapid transit lines.

When it is finally ready to open, it will run well. The problem is getting it to that point.

Dan

 

[Admiral Beez]

When it is finally ready to open, it will run well.

We might be referring back to this claim throughout the first 2-3 years after it opens.

That said, I hope you're right.

 

[KevinT]

As they observed Ottawa’s experience, Metrolinx likely thought the O-Train was absolutely ready. But in addition to thirteen other faults, they’d not taken into account how the passengers would interact with the doors. There will be something on the Crosstown that Metrolinx has overlooked that causes a shutdown after a brief opening. This organization does not have a record of seeing the whole picture before acting.

If those vehicles had door issues, KW would long ago have a) seen them and b) sorted them out.

 

[rbt]

There's a fix for that. Doors that closed with gusto.

It's hard to be aggressive at closing the doors without risking a non-trivial injury to some slow moving elderly or disabled person.

 

[Amare]

It's hard to be aggressive at closing the doors without risking a non-trivial injury to some slow moving elderly or disabled person.

This is true, but I will say that the TTC has really slowed down door closing on various vehicles over the years:

-The H6 subway trains had relatively quick door closing, the T1's close slower than the H6's, the TR's close even slower than the T1's.

-With the streetcars they slowed down the door closing speed with the Flexity's quite substantially compared to when they were first delivered.

But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".

 

[Admiral Beez]

But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".

But keeping its riders safe from the dangerously insane or otherwise violent people loitering on its system? No worries.

As for the doors, it's so frustration when I'm onboard the streetcar and I'm mentally willing the doors to close so we can get going, but no, by the time they creep almost shut, somebody hits the door button and we're waiting some more.

 

[adys123]

This is true, but I will say that the TTC has really slowed down door closing on various vehicles over the years:

-The H6 subway trains had relatively quick door closing, the T1's close slower than the H6's, the TR's close even slower than the T1's.

-With the streetcars they slowed down the door closing speed with the Flexity's quite substantially compared to when they were first delivered.

But this is the TTC we're talking about, they're risk averse to virtually everything that might be involved in an accident so they'll slow down everything in the name of "safety".

The official response is actually concerns from the accessibility community. I would personally argue that faster closer would actually be more accessible because it's more predictable what will happen once the chime sounds with minimal delay.

 

[Adjei]

I was just in Granada, Spain and I observed with their tram as soon before it even approaches the intersection or roundabout, all the cars had to wait for it to cross. Priority was always given to the tram over the cars. It was pretty neat.

Knowing Toronto I doubt the surface section of the crosstown will work like this.