Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[smallspy]

We might be referring back to this claim throughout the first 2-3 years after it opens.

That said, I hope you're right.

When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?

The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.

Dan

 

[crs1026]

When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?

The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.

Dan

The good side (if there is one) to all the delay is that the testing and burn-in period for this transit line is lengthy and no doubt beyond what might happen in a "rushed" implementation. And the benefit of the P3 contract and assorted disputes is that ML will have no illusions about what the contractor will be willing to do (or not) as warranty work or post-opening finishing work. So while the whole thing is a debacle, I have very high confidence that ML will have chased down every last bit of deficiency correction before opening the doors.
The bigger question we should be monitoring is - did the engineering and construction solution to the original showstopper at Yonge actually work? If that proved to have been inadequate - we would have a huge problem, maybe a decade or more to resolve. Let's hope we are past that one.

- Paul

 

[zang]

When has the TTC opened a rapid transit line that didn't work, obviously notwithstanding the usual TTC issues?

Pretty sure the SRT had issues from day one.

See the "problems develop" section of this page:

The Rise and Fall of the Scarborough RT - Transit Toronto - Content

The ones that I have been old enough to witness and remember - Downsview, TYSSE and Sheppard - all went off without a hitch service-wise. And I've never found evidence in any of the older ones to indicate anything so problematic as to require service stoppages the likes that Ottawa has been dealing with.

The SRT was closed down for three months less than three years after it opened to rebuild platforms and the Kennedy Station turning loop

 

[beatle04]

The good side (if there is one) to all the delay is that the testing and burn-in period for this transit line is lengthy and no doubt beyond what might happen in a "rushed" implementation. And the benefit of the P3 contract and assorted disputes is that ML will have no illusions about what the contractor will be willing to do (or not) as warranty work or post-opening finishing work. So while the whole thing is a debacle, I have very high confidence that ML will have chased down every last bit of deficiency correction before opening the doors.
The bigger question we should be monitoring is - did the engineering and construction solution to the original showstopper at Yonge actually work? If that proved to have been inadequate - we would have a huge problem, maybe a decade or more to resolve. Let's hope we are past that one.

- Paul

Do we know what the showstopper is was?

 

[WalkieScorchie]

Do we know what the showstopper is was?

iirc it was structural deterioration of the existing Line 1 tunnel box that needed to be addressed before underpinning could be performed.

edit: I sincerely hope (considering how long it took to resolve this) that the engineering evaluation took reasonable precaution to more thoroughly assess the condition of the Line 1 station box before underpinning and closing it up. There was a really tight tolerance for movement at the line 1 track level (we're talking a few mm - ML phrased it as the width of a grain of rice). So I can understand why this added so much time

 

[SashaLemon]

Get rid of those intersections for carsaltogether.

Anyone would would use the Swift/Credit Union intersection can simply drive 400m to the Sloane intersection
View attachment 551939


View attachment 551940
View attachment 551941

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Altogether, these 5 left turns are totally unnecessary. Maybe you can have pedestrian crossings but theres no reason why we need to permit these left turns so people can save 3 minutes instead of just making a u-turn at the next arterial or just going around.

Transportation department just has a terminal case of car brain.

I can't tell you how many times I have been staring at Apple Maps along Eglinton being like "God maybe we could make this a little better by cutting off some of these intersections."

 

[smallspy]

Pretty sure the SRT had issues from day one.

See the "problems develop" section of this page:

The Rise and Fall of the Scarborough RT - Transit Toronto - Content

The SRT was closed down for three months less than three years after it opened to rebuild platforms and the Kennedy Station turning loop

The SRT had issues with it's design and implementation, sure. The closure to re-configure Kennedy Station is a prime example of that.

And while it was more problematic than the subway in terms of operation, it never suffered from nearly the same level of operating complications (to put it nicely) that Ottawa has. It was as close as we've had to a troubled launch, and yet people were still able to rely on it from day 1 right until the end.

Dan

 

[DirectionNorth]

I don't think Crosstown will see Ottawa-esque issues. In fact, I believe part of the delay is/will be that Metrolinx is hoping at all costs to avoid a public spectacle like Ottawa had, and they're doing extra testing to ensure that doesn't happen.

If ECLRT gets Confederation Lined, Metrolinx will be in deep trouble. They're motivated to avoid this at all costs, hence, my conclusion above.

 

[Steve X]

I don't think Crosstown will see Ottawa-esque issues. In fact, I believe part of the delay is/will be that Metrolinx is hoping at all costs to avoid a public spectacle like Ottawa had, and they're doing extra testing to ensure that doesn't happen.

If ECLRT gets Confederation Lined, Metrolinx will be in deep trouble. They're motivated to avoid this at all costs, hence, my conclusion above.

We have yet to see Line 5 operate with simulated revenue service level, so we don't really know. This isn't about making one trip across the line but can the trains all stay in service the entire day without breaking the rails/overhead or blowing up the transformer.

 

[James1256]

Taken today, April 24th, 2024. Work was going on in front of Golden Mile station, and also near the DVP station (No picture of that, but several construction workers were doing something there)

 

[zang]

And while it was more problematic than the subway in terms of operation, it never suffered from nearly the same level of operating complications (to put it nicely) that Ottawa has. It was as close as we've had to a troubled launch, and yet people were still able to rely on it from day 1 right until the end.

…except for the aforementioned 3 months of full closure, it’s early-end-of-service and every cold day the tracks froze up?

From experience, it wasn’t really a reliable service.

 

[mburrrrr]

Taken today, April 24th, 2024. Work was going on in front of Golden Mile station, and also near the DVP station (No picture of that, but several construction workers were doing something there)

View attachment 559020

Eglinton / Wynford
It looks like they are measuring or adjusting the rails - picture from last Thursday. There must have been 20+ workers there today.
What are the two inner rails for? Weathered spares? Hard to see in this picture.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

What are the two inner rails for? Weathered spares?

Wikipedia: Guard Rail / Check Rail
Just a safety net. There isn’t necessarily an increased chance of derailment, rather there is more at risk, eg. derailment on a bridge.

 

[smallspy]

…except for the aforementioned 3 months of full closure, it’s early-end-of-service and every cold day the tracks froze up?

From experience, it wasn’t really a reliable service.

I took it every day for many years.

It sucked when it wasn't running, sure, but the number of actual closures that occurred were exceedingly rare. They would slow it down if they were worried about it, but seldom did it not run at all. In fact, other than a couple of snowstorms (which also affected subway and bus service), the only other time I recall getting caught out by it was during a summer storm when a train was hit by lightning.

Dan

 

[urbancog]

The Trimble device in the pic above is a 3D LiDAR scanner.

Trimble Track Surveying & Scanning | Transforming the Way the World Works

Helping organizations incorporate spatial information into their operations for increased productivity, greater safety, and value.

gedo.trimble.com

Uses include:

• Final Inspection
• As-built survey and documentation
• Quality Control
• Clearance analysis"