News   May 24, 2024
 63     0 
News   May 24, 2024
 180     0 
News   May 24, 2024
 962     2 

Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

He's incorrect about that. There are sensors for detecting trains around the intersections, and there is some connection between the signal system on the surface section and the traffic signals at the intersections.

Dan
If there are sensors as you stated, they are not working from what I have seen to date.

From day one, and still are, transit lights turn red about 10 seconds before traffic lights start to change.

Every train that has arrived at an intersection has to stop at traffic lights then keep on going when the lights are about to change.

If a train is at the station, they must wait until the cars turn left before moving from the station. I have shot a video of this in its and it was posted many pages back in this thread.
 
If there are sensors as you stated, they are not working from what I have seen to date.

From day one, and still are, transit lights turn red about 10 seconds before traffic lights start to change.

Every train that has arrived at an intersection has to stop at traffic lights then keep on going when the lights are about to change.

If a train is at the station, they must wait until the cars turn left before moving from the station. I have shot a video of this in its and it was posted many pages back in this thread.
so the surface section is being configured to be a glorified streetcar??! geez TTC just dinosaur and redtaped again!
 
If there are sensors as you stated, they are not working from what I have seen to date.
I'll be honest - I haven't had a chance to talk with my buddy who was involved in the signal system design as yet. I'm hoping to in the next couple of weeks.

But is it possible that the way that they are set up to operate doesn't do so in a way that you expect? If they are tied in with the signalling system, then - like YRT's busways - they may only enable priority when delayed. Or when a train is scheduled. As of right now, all of the testing has been done without a schedule.

From day one, and still are, transit lights turn red about 10 seconds before traffic lights start to change.
That's by design. It takes a lot longer for a 300 foot long LRV train to clear an intersection - especially when decelerating - than a 20 foot automobile. Can you imagine how long the people would be waiting if a train attempted to go through on a stale yellow?

Every train that has arrived at an intersection has to stop at traffic lights then keep on going when the lights are about to change.
Observational bias. I've seen trains that sailed through the intersection without stopping, some coming to a stop at the far side platform, and a couple clipping past without stopping at all.

If a train is at the station, they must wait until the cars turn left before moving from the station. I have shot a video of this in its and it was posted many pages back in this thread.
What? Most of the stops have far-side platforms - the cars turning left have no bearing on the train once it is in the platform.

Dan
 
ML has a lot to answer for about Eglinton with it's delays and incompetence and heads should roll although they won't. That sai, this glorified streetcar that will be stuck in traffic is NOT the fault of the TTC or ML but rather the fault of the City and the DoT. The City could very easily remedy this situation by making sure that the LRTs all receive complete green lights along the entire corridor with the stroke of a pen. This of course would force the City to be the REAL transit city it likes to espouse itself as being. If these trains have to stop for any lights along the entire at-grade section then the City has decided that cars must come first even after a decade of construction and $12 billion spent. Full stop.
 
ML has a lot to answer for about Eglinton with it's delays and incompetence and heads should roll although they won't. That sai, this glorified streetcar that will be stuck in traffic is NOT the fault of the TTC or ML but rather the fault of the City and the DoT. The City could very easily remedy this situation by making sure that the LRTs all receive complete green lights along the entire corridor with the stroke of a pen. This of course would force the City to be the REAL transit city it likes to espouse itself as being. If these trains have to stop for any lights along the entire at-grade section then the City has decided that cars must come first even after a decade of construction and $12 billion spent. Full stop.
I'll reserve judgment until we see what kind of priority the Crosstown gets. If it ends up as a glorified streetcar I'll be forced to agree with you. If the LRVs get full priority I'll completely disagree with you. If it's somewhere in between, then we'll see.
 
I'll reserve judgment until we see what kind of priority the Crosstown gets. If it ends up as a glorified streetcar I'll be forced to agree with you. If the LRVs get full priority I'll completely disagree with you. If it's somewhere in between, then we'll see.
Crazy how nobody in the public 10+ years into this project knows how the signalling will actually function. Transit projects should really not be black boxes like this. We should have public access to technical documentation like is standard in Italy.
 
Crazy how nobody in the public 10+ years into this project knows how the signalling will actually function. Transit projects should really not be black boxes like this. We should have public access to technical documentation like is standard in Italy.
In an environment where people have to file Freedom of Information requests for trivial things, it's not surprising that we can't just find this documentation. The default should be to post such information, especially for public realm works.
 
Seems to me, our expectations may be getting a bit overthought, given the long period of anticipation. Once the line goes in service, we will have real data to work from instead of the theoretical. Maybe we need to see how it works out.

For what it's worth, I have been driving Eglinton East a few times recently while the test trains have been operating, and I have taken note of who passes who. The testing seems to be simulating realistic station dwell and track speed, so I figure it's a reasonable preview

-The LRT is clearly faster than the existing bus service, and that in itself may benefit riders. Removing those buses may even improve driving times as the bus halts are what impedes the right lane traffic in both directions.
- In average midday traffic, the LRT does seem to move faster than autos, moreso eastward than westward.
- There are still a couple of construction-related lane restrictions (I suspect there will always be, for one thing or another) - and these throttle auto traffic, so the LRT may be a tortoise but it wins in the end..

The point being, maybe speed does not have to be optimal..... so long as it is better than driving, people will find it attractive.

The other things that I have observed are
- Frankly, Eglinton East is a junky street and no form of transit is going to change that. Even where new development is happening, the streetform is sterile and remains autocentric, even where new buildings are going up. Walkable it ain't, nothing to see here. Won't be heading up here to visit a restaurant or go for a stroll. This line will mostly thrive on riders riding through or transferring at major north south routes. It's a transportation corridor rather than an avenue in the making.
- Try to find parking, except at the Golden Mile. Backstreets are signed No Parking and commercial lots all have signs saying "For customers only".
- There are insufficient places to cross Eglinton on foot, and the LRT guideway does not make provision for pedestrians to stand or cross safely. Even the refuge islands at crossings marked two-stage are minimal in size. The grassy row does invite standing or crossing in proximity to the track - I wonder if we should be more concerned about this. LRV priority at major intersections may be less of a concern - should more pedestrian crossings be built, LRV's will need to yield at other points. The design as is will only work because the non-walkable environment means pedestrians will be scarce.

In short, the contribution of the LRT to the built form of the street is not positive and will not stimulate a more vibrant community. I can't build much enthusiasm for this line's form, it is purely functional. Maybe we should have buried this thing after all.

- Paul
 
Last edited:
I'll be honest - I haven't had a chance to talk with my buddy who was involved in the signal system design as yet. I'm hoping to in the next couple of weeks.

But is it possible that the way that they are set up to operate doesn't do so in a way that you expect? If they are tied in with the signalling system, then - like YRT's busways - they may only enable priority when delayed. Or when a train is scheduled. As of right now, all of the testing has been done without a schedule.


That's by design. It takes a lot longer for a 300 foot long LRV train to clear an intersection - especially when decelerating - than a 20 foot automobile. Can you imagine how long the people would be waiting if a train attempted to go through on a stale yellow?


Observational bias. I've seen trains that sailed through the intersection without stopping, some coming to a stop at the far side platform, and a couple clipping past without stopping at all.


What? Most of the stops have far-side platforms - the cars turning left have no bearing on the train once it is in the platform.

Dan
Odds are at this stage of testing the sensor inputs aren't enabled in the control cabinets to eliminate potential failure points with the signal programming so that the light cycles will operate consistently until they can properly test the sensor integration.
 
Odds are at this stage of testing the sensor inputs aren't enabled in the control cabinets to eliminate potential failure points with the signal programming so that the light cycles will operate consistently until they can properly test the sensor integration.
On the railroading side of things, there is a lot of integration testing required in advance of a signal system going live, and part of that involves the use of actual rolling stock. And upon completion of various stages of testing certain parts of it are then "tagged out" in advance of the full system cut-over date.

They would have absolutely done some testing in the early build-up, but I agree that it is certainly possible that they've done enough for now and have cut out what they don't strictly need for this stage of testing.

Dan
 
On the railroading side of things, there is a lot of integration testing required in advance of a signal system going live, and part of that involves the use of actual rolling stock. And upon completion of various stages of testing certain parts of it are then "tagged out" in advance of the full system cut-over date.

They would have absolutely done some testing in the early build-up, but I agree that it is certainly possible that they've done enough for now and have cut out what they don't strictly need for this stage of testing.

Dan
I'm sort of curious why the left turn light will trigger at some intersections even for 0 cars
 
I'm sort of curious why the left turn light will trigger at some intersections even for 0 cars

That's a good question. Is it activated by the presence of a vehicle, or just set to go green all the time? Or malfunctioning?

I drove in LA for a few years and noticed several intersections at roads comparable in size to Eglinton or Sheppard where the lights responded in different and complex ways depending on the presence of cars, and even how many cars were in the turning lane. I don't recall seeing a lot of accidents at them. Straying from a very narrow orthodoxy on how things can and should work in Toronto seems to be impossible.
 
That's a good question. Is it activated by the presence of a vehicle, or just set to go green all the time? Or malfunctioning?

I drove in LA for a few years and noticed several intersections at roads comparable in size to Eglinton or Sheppard where the lights responded in different and complex ways depending on the presence of cars, and even how many cars were in the turning lane. I don't recall seeing a lot of accidents at them. Straying from a very narrow orthodoxy on how things can and should work in Toronto seems to be impossible.
Toronto is weird, there are a couple of (non eglinton) intersections trigger with zero cars (they have the ground and microwave sensors) There are also some that never trigger even with 10+ cars and 311 confirmed they're working fine
 
I'm sort of curious why the left turn light will trigger at some intersections even for 0 cars
My guess is that some of the fine details - like the triggering sensors - just haven't been set up yet. Although it's curious, as it only took the City a month or two to adjust and configure the lights at the intersections on the underground sections of the line.

But then again, maybe that's because those intersections have been handed back to the City, whereas the surface ones haven't?

Dan
 
Eglinton Station signage has been made for the elevators, but seems there’s inconsistency. (Redesigning TTC on Twitter)
1712983340291.jpeg
 

Back
Top