Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[T3G]

This does happen often on the streetcar, which is why we see bunching on the network. There will be a minor incident on the streetcar in front, and then at the next stop, the doors are held, etc. Meanwhile, the car that has been running close behind with fewer passengers is now ahead of schedule.

All of this can also happen on the subway network. It's one of the disadvantages of rail networks. Again, as previously stated, if you have quasi competent dispatchers, it's not a concern.

I don't find it insulting when someone else's opinion on an LRT line differs from my opinion on an LRT line.

It is possible to share an opinion on an LRT line without acting like the sky will fall because a short section of it is not grade separated. If grade separation were the be-all, end-all, then it wouldn't be possible for subway trains to get backed up in the event of a delay, right? I already pointed out, in the quote you so selectively trimmed, why it's not reasonable to expect that it will be a regular, daily operational occurrence. And if you need more evidence, you can head down to any downtown station on the subway, and tell me how often you see trains backed up just outside the station during regular service.

 

[Rainforest]

Maybe in 50 years it become an issue. At which point adding lines on St. Clair or Lawrence should do the trick.

It will be hard to use St. Clair for that purpose. That route has 2 massive gaps: Don Valley between St. Clair East and O'Connor, and the Humber river + some residential blocks between St. Clair West and Rathburn. And the existing section, while it serves the local residents reasonably well, is not suitable for any high-capacity operation without a massive rebuilt. The stops are way too close for that, the platforms are way too small, and the St Clair West Stn loop is a bottleneck.

Lawrence, on the other hand, should be suitable. Would need to deal with the Bridle Path gap somehow, but other than that, it can be a true crosstown route that goes to Pearson in the west (via Dixon Rd), and deep into Scarborough in the east.

 

[nfitz]

A significant undercount if Golden Mile is fully built out.

It's the 2031 estimate. I don't think that the Golden Mile will be fully built on in 7 years.

 

[ssiguy2]

Everyone knows that Eglinton should have been a completely grade separated line {including ML} but that ship has sailed.

That said, it can be just as fast as a grade separated line with the same number of stations but that will depend on City Hall. With today's technology, there is absolutely NO reason why any of the trains should see a red light in either direction. As you know, the road and hence intersection lights are 100% the domain of the City's transportation dept. The TTC has no control over any of them and can only plead their case for signal priority hoping the DoT and City Hall listens.

If these vehicles get bunched or stuck at lights it will be completely the city's fault, not the TTC. When the line opens , which admittedly is a big if, we will see how serious Toronto REALLY is about speeding up transit and making the city a "Transit City" or whether they just stay the course and give cars priority a la Spadina. Now you will be able to see if Chow is willing to put her money where in industrial sized mouth is.

 

[nfitz]

Everyone knows that Eglinton should have been a completely grade separated line {including ML} but that ship has sailed.

They must certainly don't. But enough already. Start a fantasy thread to discuss alternate histories.

 

[adys123]

They must certainly don't. But enough already. Start a fantasy thread to discuss alternate histories.

You'd be surprised...

 

[MrGoose]

Eglinton can still be grade separated. If you shut the eastern section down, the ROW to build an elevated line exists so long as you remove a couple of left turns.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Golden Mile will be lucky to have 1-2 buildings built and occupied by 2031.

I'm not overly concerned about capacity on the surface section in the short term. The Crosstown can at the end of the day run 90 metre trains, which can hold about 700 people. It's also at the "end" of the line which isn't as busy, and as of right now doesn't have a ton of huge traffic generators along it as it's mostly surrounded by huge commercial plazas.

Over time it'll get busier, particularly between Laird and Don Mills, but eventually the Ontario Line will act as a relief valve as well.

Once Golden Mile reaches full build-out it may have more issues, but that's not likely until the 2050's or so to be honest. Golden Mile is also deceptively dense as it's a lot of high-rise applications but also a lot of open space and the south side of Eglinton as of today is still mostly designated for employment. The median total density within walking distance of the LRT isn't going to be as high as it may appear.

 

[MrGoose]

There are 5 places where a side street intersection with Eglinton has a left turn intersecting with the LRT. We can remove these left turns in favor of protected left turns at the nearest arterial-arterial intersection and halve the amount of traffic conflict points

Swift / Credit Union Dr

Eglinton Sq / Entrance to Golden Mile Plaza

Simott Dr

Rosemount Dr and Ionview Dr

 

[MisterF]

No there are some concerns if you look at the level of proposed development. It remains to be seen. Yes I imagine we could quite easily add capacity by increasing frequency.

As with the other east-west lines, a significant percentage of riders will be going towards downtown. So the Ontario Line, Stouffville Line, and Kitchener/UP Express will go a long way towards alleviating capacity concerns on Eglinton.

 

[KevinT]

How can there be software defects, if we've been using the same cars on the downtown network for 10 years and ION for the last 5? What on earth are they doing?

ION doesn't have the same ATC system, that's one of the reasons it was delayed. Waterloo Region was counting on just using what Crosstown had (which should have had its trains and system in-hand ahead of ION), but the ATC wasn't spec'd yet so Waterloo Region had to go out and source their own. The region unintentionally ended up being the launch customer for the Flexity Freedoms, which is where a lot of ION's delays came from. Not that you'd ever hear Metrolinx / Del Duca fess up to that, they were too busy pointing the finger at Bombardier.

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

I'm hopeful Line 5 is a huge success and isn't operated like a streetcar on the surface section, but a couple years of Line 5 videos show that streetcar practices are carrying over. The slow, timid acceleration at intersections and frequent braking in the ROW are painful to watch.

Much of the timidity comes from the fact that the operators don’t have full clearance to operate them as they would in normal service yet. There’s still a few defects that need fixing before they can gun it everywhere on the on-street section. Another thing to note is that right now there’s also Alstom/Crosslinx/Metrolinx personnel on-board directing what to do and what to test and such so they can gather metrics and diagnostic data for train control software modifications or hardware adjustments and such.

 

[ssiguy2]

If ML had employed any planning on the Eglinton Line, which has become abundantly clear it didn't, it would have employed U-turn routes along the median of Eglinton. These are employed in many cities where there are no left hand turn lights at intersections but rather U- turns are made between lights using a separate lane and controlled by lights themselves........the cars can make a U-turn when there are no LRTs on the area of the route. Yet another failure on ML's execution of this line.

Even still, with today's technology in light coordination, there is no reason why the LRTs shop be stopping for any red lights if the City decides to make transit a TRUE priority.

 

[smallspy]

If ML had employed any planning on the Eglinton Line, which has become abundantly clear it didn't, it would have employed U-turn routes along the median of Eglinton. These are employed in many cities where there are no left hand turn lights at intersections but rather U- turns are made between lights using a separate lane and controlled by lights themselves........the cars can make a U-turn when there are no LRTs on the area of the route. Yet another failure on ML's execution of this line.

Even still, with today's technology in light coordination, there is no reason why the LRTs shop be stopping for any red lights if the City decides to make transit a TRUE priority.

Since I guess you weren't around when those original conversations happened.....

The original planning for the line called for Michigan Lefts at almost all of the intersections. By the time they showed that to the public, the response was so overwhelmingly negative that they were removed for the EA.

The line as it is - from Weston to Kennedy - more-or-less follows the EA.

Dan

 

[cplchanb]

Since I guess you weren't around when those original conversations happened.....

The original planning for the line called for Michigan Lefts at almost all of the intersections. By the time they showed that to the public, the response was so overwhelmingly negative that they were removed for the EA.

The line as it is - from Weston to Kennedy - more-or-less follows the EA.

Dan

I can see why they were rejected... it looks so complex just to make a turn, not to mention doubling up on the signalling for LRT crossing.