Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[cplchanb]

The likely scenario at this point is that the EGLRT will be transferred to TTC September 1, 2023. The earliest it opens is January 1, 2024. I am sure MX/MTO/TTC/Ford will do everything in their power to get EGLRT open by end of 2023. Let's see if they can pull it off.

i still dont get why they they cant start the transfer when the line is functional and phase the aesthetic bits as they are completed later. its just systemic no common sense ML/TTC red tape that is a lose lose to everyone especially the taxpayers.

 

[smallspy]

i still dont get why they they cant start the transfer when the line is functional and phase the aesthetic bits as they are completed later. its just systemic no common sense ML/TTC red tape that is a lose lose to everyone especially the taxpayers.

It's dependent on how the contracts are written.

The TTC has absolutely opened stations, extensions and whole lines without all of the final elements, such as signage or landscaping done.

But if Metrolinx has to hand over a fully complete, functioning line to the TTC as stated in the operations contract, then that is how is has to be handed over. Hell, it may be that Crosslinx is required to do so to meet the terms of their contract in order to get paid.

Dan

 

[grammin]

It's dependent on how the contracts are written.

The TTC has absolutely opened stations, extensions and whole lines without all of the final elements, such as signage or landscaping done.

But if Metrolinx has to hand over a fully complete, functioning line to the TTC as stated in the operations contract, then that is how is has to be handed over. Hell, it may be that Crosslinx is required to do so to meet the terms of their contract in order to get paid.

Dan

Hi Dan, interesting stuff, can you say how much TTC has been involved to date in the commissioning and operational readiness of the line? In projects I have worked on in oil and gas, our final operator was involved at every stage of design/ engineering/ commissioning and control long prior to handover. The systems are integrated into a larger network after all. I recognize that a gas pipeline and facilities, feeding a major city with control systems is not a people mover but it is still quite complex.

For transit systems do they perhaps recruit people to act as passengers for final testing/ commissioning?

 

[cplchanb]

Hi Dan, interesting stuff, can you say how much TTC has been involved to date in the commissioning and operational readiness of the line? In projects I have worked on in oil and gas, our final operator was involved at every stage of design/ engineering/ commissioning and control long prior to handover. The systems are integrated into a larger network after all. I recognize that a gas pipeline and facilities, feeding a major city with control systems is not a people mover but it is still quite complex.

For transit systems do they perhaps recruit people to act as passengers for final testing/ commissioning?

my colleague has friends who are working at ML on this project. Surprise (or not) as it may be, they told him that TTC is only commenting on design aspects NOW which can explain in part why this is still a clusterfuk.
Whether its TTC or ML shitting to bed, both sides dropped the ball on this one. Why on earth would TTC be reviewing things that shouldve been signed off years ago?! is it a case of ML/Crosslinx withholding info or TTC just completely forgetting to ask for them....
extremely disappointing but not surprising if even remotely true

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The comment was about Line 5 having similar faregates to Ottawa, rather than the TTC

How can anyone tell that from the photo there doesn't appear to be any kind of readers on the gates it wouldn't make any sense at all for them to be different from the TTC fare gates unless someone at Metrolink is a complete idiot and doesn't understand constantly at all.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think the Line 5 interchange stations are also supposed to be within separate fare-paid zones.

That's what my thinking has been especially if you look at how Kennedy seems to be layed out there doesn't seem to be anyway to transfer without going through the TTC fare gates because the entrance to the crosstown platform is across a hallway in an unpaid area.

 

[smallspy]

Hi Dan, interesting stuff, can you say how much TTC has been involved to date in the commissioning and operational readiness of the line? In projects I have worked on in oil and gas, our final operator was involved at every stage of design/ engineering/ commissioning and control long prior to handover. The systems are integrated into a larger network after all. I recognize that a gas pipeline and facilities, feeding a major city with control systems is not a people mover but it is still quite complex.

From my understanding, the TTC formed an internal committee about 7 or 8 years ago - shortly after the agreement whereby they would be operating the line - in order to liaise with Metrolinx and Crosslinx more closely on the project. TTC staff have absolutely been involved since day 1 since the line is interfacing with two existing TTC facilities, but this was more so to handle and deal with both figuring out the operations and also to ensure that the work meets the TTC's design requirements - and what changes may need to be made after the fact to meet those requirements.

TTC has already trained their training staff on the line, and will shortly begin training the operators.

For transit systems do they perhaps recruit people to act as passengers for final testing/ commissioning?

They have in the past. For Sheppard, they called upon 2 employment firms to provide several hundred "passengers" for various aspects of the commissioning process.

But my understanding is that generally it is usually employees and their families who are enlisted when actual humans are required.

my colleague has friends who are working at ML on this project. Surprise (or not) as it may be, they told him that TTC is only commenting on design aspects NOW which can explain in part why this is still a clusterfuk.

TTC has been involved for some time, as I explained above.

What might be happening now however is that Metrolinx is finally listening to them.

Whether its TTC or ML shitting to bed, both sides dropped the ball on this one. Why on earth would TTC be reviewing things that shouldve been signed off years ago?! is it a case of ML/Crosslinx withholding info or TTC just completely forgetting to ask for them....
extremely disappointing but not surprising if even remotely true

I don't think what you've heard is completely true, to be fair. But there is certainly a fair amount of animosity on both sides.

Dan

 

[grammin]

From my understanding, the TTC formed an internal committee about 7 or 8 years ago - shortly after the agreement whereby they would be operating the line - in order to liaise with Metrolinx and Crosslinx more closely on the project. TTC staff have absolutely been involved since day 1 since the line is interfacing with two existing TTC facilities, but this was more so to handle and deal with both figuring out the operations and also to ensure that the work meets the TTC's design requirements - and what changes may need to be made after the fact to meet those requirements.

TTC has already trained their training staff on the line, and will shortly begin training the operators.


They have in the past. For Sheppard, they called upon 2 employment firms to provide several hundred "passengers" for various aspects of the commissioning process.

But my understanding is that generally it is usually employees and their families who are enlisted when actual humans are required.


TTC has been involved for some time, as I explained above.

What might be happening now however is that Metrolinx is finally listening to them.


I don't think what you've heard is completely true, to be fair. But there is certainly a fair amount of animosity on both sides.

Dan

Great insight, thanks!

 

[crs1026]

What might be happening now however is that Metrolinx is finally listening to them.
I don't think what you've heard is completely true, to be fair. But there is certainly a fair amount of animosity on both sides.

This is one of those “fair points on both sides” situations.

TTC has demonstrated a habitual reluctance to move off its traditional methods, even where it’s obvious that more than one alternative may be equally successful.

ML on the other hand has tended to propose changed approaches that they haven’t actually tried and validated - possibly moving too fast or downplaying risks or logistical barriers. One person’s passion to apply the newest and greatest may be another persons recklessness and arrogance.

It makes eminent sense to standardise things to existing TTC standards, but a new line is also an opportunity to begin phasing in advances. I’m not sure the two parties have met in the middle very effectively.

- Paul

 

[rbt]

It makes eminent sense to standardise things to existing TTC standards, but a new line is also an opportunity to begin phasing in advances. I’m not sure the two parties have met in the middle very effectively.

There are also different thresholds for the change to be beneficial.

TTC has to train staff on their current standard regardless of what is added to new lines. Unless they can convert their old system to the new standard, now they have 2 (or 3 or 4) standards to train to for that process/system. For TTC, the new standard is a wholly new cost and opportunity for confusion (for staff working on multiple systems) with no savings.

For Metrolinx, they're only dealing with the new thing so even a trivial benefit appears beneficial. I'd hazard a guess that Metrolinx proposals almost never include funding to modernize the current TTC standard across the entire system.

Of course, we've also seen this go the other way where GO had a legacy Presto system (the design was legacy before it even launched) and TTC was tendering for a much less encumbered electric fare system.

 

[nfitz]

Any time you have a structure going underground, you're going to get water ingress in places.

Of course you will. Which is why in many places you design the finishes to hid or cover the ingress staining. Rather than to highlight it.

 

[Allandale25]

"We're going to have it up and going in a very short period of time." - Ford in response to a reporters question today re opening.

Ford pressed on Eglinton LRT delays and soaring food prices

Premier Doug Ford is pressed on when the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will be completed and whether his government is doing enough to combat soaring food prices. Richard Southern reports.

toronto.citynews.ca

 

[ARG1]

"We're going to have it up and going in a very short period of time." - Ford in response to a reporters question today re opening.

Ford pressed on Eglinton LRT delays and soaring food prices

Premier Doug Ford is pressed on when the Eglinton Crosstown LRT will be completed and whether his government is doing enough to combat soaring food prices. Richard Southern reports.

toronto.citynews.ca

A year is a very short period of time in the context of the planet's history - extremely short actually.

 

[tiffer24]

The original opening date for the Crosstown Line is long gone. Almost three years later, we are still waiting.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

I can see the opening date announced very close to the actual opening. Fits within the “share no info” vibe of this project and ensures another date isn’t missed. Of course this would be a nightmare for realigning TTC bus routes etc.