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Jimvee
New Member
Agree, some of the downtown stations will be located in historically significant locations and my hope is that they somehow tie this into the station and platform designs.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
Some architectural fixtures and art features are inexpensive, a rounding error on a rounding error in the exorbitant transit prices of Toronto.
On the surface sections of Eglinton LRT, we could have had a wavy roof for little cost, instead of this:
A wavy roof bus stop in Washington state.
KevinT
Active Member
But that's just it: There is nothing clean, light, airy, or easily repairable about bare concrete walls that are water stained before the system even opens...
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I have some major concerns with Crosslinx's road safety management with this project. They are handling it incredibly irresponsibly.
About two years ago, I personally witnessed a collision between two motor vehicles, that was quite clearly caused by Crosslinx's negligent safety management. In short, Crosslinx failed to remove outdated lane markings. They just painted new lane markings on top of the old. This resulted in conflicting lane markings directing drivers in two adjacent lane to occupy the same space on the road. The two drivers did exactly what the lane markings told them to do, and ended up in a collision as a result. This should've been a major wake up call, but alas...
I was travelling westbound on Eglinton at Ionview last night. The westbound lanes were closed, and westbound drivers were supposed to detour onto the eastbound lanes (on the southside of the road) to travel west.
There was no signage or police presence to indicate that the westbound lanes were closed. All they had were two or three barely visible pylons located in an unlit portion of the road to indicate that the westbound lanes were closed. Given how dark it was, it would not be unreasonable to expect a driver travelling at high speed to fail to observe the pylons until it was too late to stop.
Even more concerning, there was only a single sign directing westbound drivers to travel in the eastbound lane. Other than a single "merge left" sign, there was nothing at all directing these drivers to detour via the eastbound lanes.
Please consider how complex this street is right now. The street was very wide, largely unlit, and has an unused centre median. It was not at all clear whether westbound drivers were supposed to turn left, move into the centre median, or detour onto the eastbound lanes. The unlit eastbound lanes had no visible markings or signage to indicate that westbound drivers were supposed to detour onto the eastbound lanes.
Over and over again I saw drivers stop in the centre of the intersection for extended periods, clueless about what they were supposed to do. Some even made dangerous moves, such as turning left without a protected left signal, because they were unable to determine what to do.
Further, as we continued westbound down the detour via the eastbound lanes, there were no stoplights at any of the intersections for the westbound drivers detouring via the eastbound lanes. Nor was there any police presence or signage explaining what to do. The normal westbound stoplights (located on the northern half of the road) were working, but they were barely visible from the detour on the southside of the road. Those stoplights were not in our line of vision (again, remember how wide this road is), and were frequently obstructed by transit shelters or other obstacles. It would be very easy for a driver unfamiliar with the area to obliviously speed through the intersection on a "red" light, which very well could become a fatal accident. I would have zero expectation whatsoever for an out-of-town driver to recognize that they need to stop at these intersections.
Now I noticed that Crosslinx did occasionally have employees posted at some of these conflict locations. I supposed they were supposed to be directing traffic, but they were clearly preoccupied with other things, or just not paying attention, so they were useless.
I have never before seen road safety management this poor with any project in the City of Toronto. I know City Councillors have made complaints about this, but Metrolinx and Crosslinx have been completely unresponsive. It's clear that they have no interest in ensuring a safe environment for road users along the Crosstown route.
About two years ago, I personally witnessed a collision between two motor vehicles, that was quite clearly caused by Crosslinx's negligent safety management. In short, Crosslinx failed to remove outdated lane markings. They just painted new lane markings on top of the old. This resulted in conflicting lane markings directing drivers in two adjacent lane to occupy the same space on the road. The two drivers did exactly what the lane markings told them to do, and ended up in a collision as a result. This should've been a major wake up call, but alas...
I was travelling westbound on Eglinton at Ionview last night. The westbound lanes were closed, and westbound drivers were supposed to detour onto the eastbound lanes (on the southside of the road) to travel west.
There was no signage or police presence to indicate that the westbound lanes were closed. All they had were two or three barely visible pylons located in an unlit portion of the road to indicate that the westbound lanes were closed. Given how dark it was, it would not be unreasonable to expect a driver travelling at high speed to fail to observe the pylons until it was too late to stop.
Even more concerning, there was only a single sign directing westbound drivers to travel in the eastbound lane. Other than a single "merge left" sign, there was nothing at all directing these drivers to detour via the eastbound lanes.
Please consider how complex this street is right now. The street was very wide, largely unlit, and has an unused centre median. It was not at all clear whether westbound drivers were supposed to turn left, move into the centre median, or detour onto the eastbound lanes. The unlit eastbound lanes had no visible markings or signage to indicate that westbound drivers were supposed to detour onto the eastbound lanes.
Over and over again I saw drivers stop in the centre of the intersection for extended periods, clueless about what they were supposed to do. Some even made dangerous moves, such as turning left without a protected left signal, because they were unable to determine what to do.
Further, as we continued westbound down the detour via the eastbound lanes, there were no stoplights at any of the intersections for the westbound drivers detouring via the eastbound lanes. Nor was there any police presence or signage explaining what to do. The normal westbound stoplights (located on the northern half of the road) were working, but they were barely visible from the detour on the southside of the road. Those stoplights were not in our line of vision (again, remember how wide this road is), and were frequently obstructed by transit shelters or other obstacles. It would be very easy for a driver unfamiliar with the area to obliviously speed through the intersection on a "red" light, which very well could become a fatal accident. I would have zero expectation whatsoever for an out-of-town driver to recognize that they need to stop at these intersections.
Now I noticed that Crosslinx did occasionally have employees posted at some of these conflict locations. I supposed they were supposed to be directing traffic, but they were clearly preoccupied with other things, or just not paying attention, so they were useless.
I have never before seen road safety management this poor with any project in the City of Toronto. I know City Councillors have made complaints about this, but Metrolinx and Crosslinx have been completely unresponsive. It's clear that they have no interest in ensuring a safe environment for road users along the Crosstown route.
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syn
Senior Member
A clear indication the bar has fallen is that we consider the TYSSE stations 'opulent'. They should be the norm.
I don't mean that every single station needs to be large in size, but there should be a real investment in the public realm - especially for stations on the Ontario Line.
People are rarely in any given public area for a significant amount of time, yet I still believe a beautiful public realm has real impact and value.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The sin of the TYSSE's design was the station depth and size. The architecture itself was very minor cost in comparison. Financials are no excuse to skimp on architectural design. We can afford nice stations with an $11 Billion budget.
If we must quantify the benefits of excellence in architecture for fiscal hawks, people are undoubtedly more likely to travel to places that feature great architecture. Nobody has ever said, "I want to travel to NYC to see [the butt ugly] Penn Station", yet Grand Central has millions of tourist visits annually. Architecture matters.
Ciarlandini
Active Member
I'm a little disappointed that the TTC didn't continue the subway station tiling stile that we saw on line one between Sheppard West and Finch and Line 2. Would have been a nice touch to continue, although a little bit too pricy. At least in the Oakwood photos you could see something similar.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I don't really get what most of the complaints about the ECLRT station architecture are for - beyond personal aesthetic preferences. If there are something to complain about, it would be the quality of exposed concrete work at the track level - like TYSSE, they just aren't all that great, and will probably age badly.
AoD
AoD
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The architecture isn't bad. It's just "okay". Medicore. Functional. Good, but not great. Quintessential Toronto. This might be acceptable for a midtown line, but we should strive for better with the Ontario Line. We have more than enough architectural mediocrity in this city as is.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I don't mind the neutrality of the architecture - and I rather have that than proposals that overpromise and end up being compromised in quality (TYSSE, I am looking at you). If you aren't willing to back up exemplar design with exemplar execution, go for the competent instead.
AoD
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm fine with it. Subway stations don't need to be palaces. Simple, attractive, functional is fine. And that is exactly what Metrolinx is aiming for here. TYSSE was over the top, the palatial style of design, and it comes across as farcicial and overkill for it's purpose.
The Crosstown is a vast improvement over the last "functional" transit line that was constructed, the Sheppard line, which looks like designed by engineers (and honestly probably was).
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
It's amazing how much of an impact the green tracks have had on the public realm on Eglinton East. The areas with the green track instantly feel more lively and vibrant. And it'll only get better as the parking lots are replaced by higher density developments. Give it another decade or so, and it'll be hard to believe that these sections of Eglinton East were once a concrete wasteland. Just goes to show how small investments can yield huge public realm improvements.
This treatment should be the default for all LRT projects in the city. The 510 Spadina, 509 Harbourfront and 511 Bathurst should be next in line to get green tracks. It's unfortunate that it wasn't planned for FWLRT as well.
Hopefully emergency services will be less hesitant to support the green tracks once they see that the sky hasn't fallen on Eglinton.
This treatment should be the default for all LRT projects in the city. The 510 Spadina, 509 Harbourfront and 511 Bathurst should be next in line to get green tracks. It's unfortunate that it wasn't planned for FWLRT as well.
Hopefully emergency services will be less hesitant to support the green tracks once they see that the sky hasn't fallen on Eglinton.
asher__jo
Active Member
Which is think is generally fine, especially if stations are built over eventually.
nfitz
Superstar
I'd think the main issue would be like Bloor-Danforth - that the architecture is the same in every station. But I say that without having seen it of course.