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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

drum118 said:
Union busting at its best and a better run system, if TTC does not operate the Eglinton Line and all other TC lines.
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My Prayers Have Been Answered! :D:D:D

This is the only way the TTC monopoly can begin to enter the real world and commuters finally get a taste of what a properly managed system should look like.

Don't worry about fares, it will work exactly like the Canada Line in Vancouver!

And maybe with a P3 "excuse" they can also elevate the line from Leslie to Birchmount and further cut costs or divert them into extending the line west towards Pearson.

With a P3 operation, it will surely be automated to the extreme. Once Torontonians see what an automated transit line look like, they WILL begin to clamour for the same thing on the TTC.

Finally time to get those fat ass fare collectors out of their asinine job positions! Send the money to the real workers in the TTC...the bus drivers and tunnel workers.

Great News! So Happy! I just hope McGuinty doesn't back down over some stupid CUPE excuse.

nfitz said:
Don't see real issue with the PPP operating it. That's how GO operates, and it's seamless.
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oooo! I never knew that...but i guess it makes sense since the operators are wearing BOMBARDIER uniforms!
 
accura407 said:
oooo! I never knew that...but i guess it makes sense since the operators are wearing BOMBARDIER uniforms!
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Well, it's a contracted service really, rather than a proper PPP, to be fair. Not sure what the arrangement for the Air Rail Link is though ...
 
As long as it's built and operated like the Canada Line in Vancouver, there's not too much to worry about. The Canada Line was built and is operated by a P3 consortium, and it works well. Fares are fully integrated and seemless connections with the rest of the Translink system.

I'm just worried that we won't get it right as Vancouver seems to have. BOT operations make me nervous.

A note about Translink: Service is provided by five non-paratransit divisions, three of those five are publicly owned and operated (Coast Mountain Bus which operates buses, trolley buses and SeaBus; Skytrain; West Vancouver Transit; West Coast Express; Canada Line). WCE is contracted service, but publicly owned, only Canada Line is P3, as a BOT.
 
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BOT always makes me nervous - if there are any corners cut during design and construction, it WILL show up 30 (or whatever number) of years later, and not much potential for recourse at that time. Not sure how much specifications the government can mandate in the contract to prevent that deleterious outcome.

AoD
 
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Well I am against this. Why can;t they just hire a project team and give them an incentive of so many dollars (milion) to get the work done on time and on budget. Well if GO is private then why did the Liberals announce that GO train passengers would get refunds if GO trains are fifteen (15) minutes late, beginning in 2012? What government interfers with private companies in that manner? Plus I find it hard to see how they will divide the revenue between private operator and TTC/ When someone gets off the LRR and transfers to the TTC subways then what? That fare the customer has paid to the private operator for the usage of the LRT will somehow need to be divided and go to the TTC would it not? Guess this means technology that would track all ridership

When they do the PPP with hospitals, the design/build firm gets in return 30 years to operate the hospital. What do you think happens? How will the company make money? Well they need to find revenue - contract out services, and not just laundry/food/housekeeping even work done by technicians by sending it overseas i.e India for reading of xrays, etc. Everything is now going digital so not hard to do. I know one person who went to get xrays done and this is what he was told and he demanded it be read by someone at the lab. I never would have thought this kind of work would be shipped overseas. But its amazing politicians will never say that to the pubic. They will sing the praises of PPP but never communicate to the public what that design/build firm gets in return. I had to do so much googling to find out.

Its amazing that the privately owned Toronto Railway Company was granted a 30-year franchise by the city to operate public transit and eventually public transit became a publicly run operation. So now to go back to private I do not get it.
 
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Palma said:
When they do the PPP with hospitals, the design/build firm gets in return 30 years to operate the hospital. What do you think happens? How will the company make money? Well they need to find revenue - contract out services, and not just laundry/food/housekeeping even work done by technicians by sending it overseas i.e India for reading of xrays, etc. Everything is now going digital so not hard to do. I know one person who went to get xrays done and this is what he was told and he demanded it be read by someone at the lab. I never would have thought this kind of work would be shipped overseas. But its amazing politicians will never say that to the pubic. They will sing the praises of PPP but never communicate to the public what that design/build firm gets in return. I had to do so much googling to find out.
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I think you need to do a bit more googling - all the hospital projects I've seen from Infrastructure Ontario are DBFM - Design Build Finance Maintain. There's a big difference between maintaining the hospital and operating it. From Bridgepoint:

The Bridgepoint Hospital project will be delivered using an alternative financing and procurement model. Plenary will receive annual payments from Bridgepoint Health over a 30-year period. Payments cover construction, building maintenance, lifecycle repair and renewal and project financing. Lifecycle repair and renewal will ensure that heating and cooling systems, windows, floors and roofing structures, for example, are kept in excellent working condition over the 30 year period. The annual payments are comparable to a fixed-rate mortgage with maintenance and repair expenses included and will total approximately $1.27 billion after 30 years. In today’s dollars this is equivalent to approximately $622 million.
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So talking about xrays going to India is a bit hyperbolic... I hope.
 
I may have got the words mixed up (operate vs maintain) and I was going on memory when I researched this some months ago. But a co-worker of mine said he got xrays done and he asked who would be reading them and he was told this. And he is from East Asia himself. Now I said this was at a lab but you think they can;t do this at hospitals or a reduction in inpatient beds and greater reliance on outpatient group home care. A key issue that is always pointed out is that P3s take advantage of the fact investment capital is available from private sources that is not available from the province. But governments get to borrow funds at the lowest interest rates possible so thai does not make sense. But this forum is not about hospitals.
 
Metrolinx absolutely needs to insist that the private contractor build decent-length platforms, not skimp on platform length like the Canada Line did. Otherwise the line is bound to become overcrowded soon after it opens.

Otherwise, though, I think that this is a positive development. The TTC has proven itself to be incompetent at running the existing subway system efficiently, Metrolinx seems much better managed in my view. If this encourages reasonable cost cutting (for example, automation, or making the east end elevated to provide several times the capacity of a LRT at a fraction of the cost of a subway), this should be encouraged.
 
I have my share of frustrations with the TTC as a daily rider of both subway lines, but to be fair - it's relatively easy to run a newly built, debugged system than one that is 50 years old and constantly on the mend and retrofits. Certainly GO also suffered its' share of technical SNAFUs as an Metrolinx agency.

AoD
 
How does Metrolinx seem much better managed? If you look at those studies for the LRT that they have done, none make sense one being the wide space stoppings, where the stations will be and the line in general. Its all about the commuter coming from the 905 and not any concerns about local 416 riders. And if they were better managed would they not have decided on this PPP before things even got underway. I mean they just had that open house at what will be the Bathurst stop and people can provide feedback on proposed design for the station and now Metrolinx is talking about going the private route? And as the previous poster noted, look at the issues that have fallen upon GO.
 
andrewpmk said:
The TTC has proven itself to be incompetent at running the existing subway system efficiently
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The TTC has proven itself to be unable to run a system that is vastly underfunded, and relies more on the farebox than any other major transit system. I don't know why a private line would be either better run at the same cost, or run as well cheaper.

And I really don't want to have to pay a separate fare just to ride on Eglinton.
 
Tulse:

Well certain aspects (like customer service) might improve, but I suspect the underlying limitations imposed by the existing state of the infrastructure probably translates into similar issues regardless of who's providing the service. In fact, depending on the terms for the private operation one might actually see service decline since the private sector might very well use a different threshold for cost-benefit analysis.

den:

I don't think the extension to Pearson is in anyone's radar.

AoD
 
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