Palma
Senior Member
Would a nice surprise that would be - having subways
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Filip
Senior Member
The website says they're now working on the final design of the vehicles. Maybe they told Bombardier that they'd rather do high floor. That's very possible as there will be no need for expensive, low floor technology on this line.
Palma
Senior Member
What is the difference from low floor technology and how does this compare to subways?
Filip
Senior Member
I really don't know. I just remember reading that low floor (and especially 100% low floor) are much more expensive due to this and that.. I'm sure someone here could explain a bit more eloquently.
Dan416
Senior Member
The vehicles have already been designed and we've seen them. Unless something has changed?
As far as I know there have been no changes to the TC LRVs.
As far as I know there have been no changes to the TC LRVs.
Filip
Senior Member
Then somebody at Metrolinx is very sloppy! The platforms in the station animations are clearly high floor.
And no, they're not fully designed, what we've seen are 'potential' candidates. The design work is ongoing and nothing is finalized yet.
And no, they're not fully designed, what we've seen are 'potential' candidates. The design work is ongoing and nothing is finalized yet.
CanadianNational
Senior Member
From the Star:
TTC may not run the Eglinton Crosstown LRT
Published On Wed Nov 30 2011
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
The biggest, most expensive public transit project in Toronto’s recent history could be built and operated without any involvement by the TTC.
Metrolinx is considering a public-private partnership to design, finance, build and even potentially operate and maintain the provincially funded $8.2 billion Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown light rail line.
It’s not clear what adding a private operator to the Toronto transit equation would mean to riders, but transit officials say a complex agreement between the TTC and an alternate provider would have to be worked out to ensure commuters could move easily between two systems. Fare payments, transfer points and protocols for service disruptions and public complaints would all need to be considered.
If Metrolinx decides on a private partnership, it would be the biggest public transit project in the province to be administered by Infrastructure Ontario, the government agency that handles alternative financing and procurements (AFPs).
With $8.2 billion at stake, Metrolinx has an obligation to investigate all options, said CEO Bruce McCuaig. The decision on how the LRT is built and operated will be based on whether “it creates value for money in the end for the owner and the taxpayer,” he said.
McCuaig didn’t know when a decision would be made. But the timing can’t impede the project’s 2020 completion schedule or its budget.
Behind the scenes, the Star has learned that TTC officials have already signaled they aren’t interested in running an LRT that is financed, designed and built by the private sector. They have also suggested that Metrolinx is operating on “very aggressive” timelines and budgets.
Queen’s Park, however, is convinced of the merits of AFPs, also known as P3s.
It might be the best way to ensure there is $650 million left over from the Eglinton project for Mayor Rob Ford’s Sheppard subway extension, said Transportation Minister Bob Chiarelli.
“Over the last six years (Infrastructure Ontario) has done 52 projects worth about $21 billion. Virtually every one has been on-time, under-budget,” he said.
Although AFPs have been used mostly in the health care sector, Infrastructure Ontario is also helping to deliver an Ottawa light rail line, the Pearson air-rail link and Highway 407 East.
The Liberal government plans to involve Infrastructure Ontario in more “larger strategic procurements, because it does it better and less expensively than almost all other types of procurement,” said Chiarelli.
AFP opponents argue the arrangements can end up costing taxpayers more because the private sector expects to profit from the deal and charges a premium for accepting the project management and design risks. They also fear the loss of control over public assets.
But David Caplan, former Liberal minister of public infrastructure renewal, says the province has learned a lot about such partnerships since Highway 407 was built and users complained bitterly about the loss of government control over tolls and how they’re administered.
“It’s important to put strict controls on a lot of things and lock down the contract,” he said.
Ontario transportation officials point to Vancouver’s Canada Line light rail project as an example. It opened in 2009 ahead of schedule for the 2010 Olympics. The $2 billion project connecting the airport to downtown was built with a combination of public and private financing, and SNC Lavalin has a 35-year concession to operate it.
The 26-km Eglinton line will run underground from about Black Creek Dr. to Kennedy Station and continue seamlessly above-ground on the route of what is now the Scarborough RT.
Getting it done on time will require having most of Eglinton dug up at the same time, warned one TTC source, who also questioned whether the private sector would be as responsive as civic government to public complaints about construction and operations.
Giving the project to Infrastructure Ontario would have the advantage of taking politics out of the equation, because once the contracts are awarded governments are obliged to carry through on their commitments, said TTC chair Karen Stintz.
But she said Vancouver’s Canada Line doesn’t compare to the Crosstown.
“They had different challenges. They weren’t tunneling under the heart of the city for the duration of the entire line,” she said.
Fare integration would be a minor problem compared with some of the complications of having the Crosstown privately operated, Stintz said.
“The largest hurdle will be how the line crosses over with the TTC’s lines, the interchange points, Yonge and Eglinton and at Bathurst and Allen Rd. If for some reason there’s a problem on the Crosstown line, what is the TTC’s response? Will they be expected to provide shuttle bus service or other service to meet those passengers?” she wondered.
“Ultimately it’s a Metrolinx project and it’s their money… . Metrolinx is the planning agency for transit and transportation for the GTA, and if this is the way they want to proceed, really there’s not much more we can do about it,” she said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/transpo...c-may-not-run-the-eglinton-crosstown-lrt?bn=1
TTC may not run the Eglinton Crosstown LRT
Published On Wed Nov 30 2011
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
The biggest, most expensive public transit project in Toronto’s recent history could be built and operated without any involvement by the TTC.
Metrolinx is considering a public-private partnership to design, finance, build and even potentially operate and maintain the provincially funded $8.2 billion Eglinton-Scarborough Crosstown light rail line.
It’s not clear what adding a private operator to the Toronto transit equation would mean to riders, but transit officials say a complex agreement between the TTC and an alternate provider would have to be worked out to ensure commuters could move easily between two systems. Fare payments, transfer points and protocols for service disruptions and public complaints would all need to be considered.
If Metrolinx decides on a private partnership, it would be the biggest public transit project in the province to be administered by Infrastructure Ontario, the government agency that handles alternative financing and procurements (AFPs).
With $8.2 billion at stake, Metrolinx has an obligation to investigate all options, said CEO Bruce McCuaig. The decision on how the LRT is built and operated will be based on whether “it creates value for money in the end for the owner and the taxpayer,” he said.
McCuaig didn’t know when a decision would be made. But the timing can’t impede the project’s 2020 completion schedule or its budget.
Behind the scenes, the Star has learned that TTC officials have already signaled they aren’t interested in running an LRT that is financed, designed and built by the private sector. They have also suggested that Metrolinx is operating on “very aggressive” timelines and budgets.
Queen’s Park, however, is convinced of the merits of AFPs, also known as P3s.
It might be the best way to ensure there is $650 million left over from the Eglinton project for Mayor Rob Ford’s Sheppard subway extension, said Transportation Minister Bob Chiarelli.
“Over the last six years (Infrastructure Ontario) has done 52 projects worth about $21 billion. Virtually every one has been on-time, under-budget,” he said.
Although AFPs have been used mostly in the health care sector, Infrastructure Ontario is also helping to deliver an Ottawa light rail line, the Pearson air-rail link and Highway 407 East.
The Liberal government plans to involve Infrastructure Ontario in more “larger strategic procurements, because it does it better and less expensively than almost all other types of procurement,” said Chiarelli.
AFP opponents argue the arrangements can end up costing taxpayers more because the private sector expects to profit from the deal and charges a premium for accepting the project management and design risks. They also fear the loss of control over public assets.
But David Caplan, former Liberal minister of public infrastructure renewal, says the province has learned a lot about such partnerships since Highway 407 was built and users complained bitterly about the loss of government control over tolls and how they’re administered.
“It’s important to put strict controls on a lot of things and lock down the contract,” he said.
Ontario transportation officials point to Vancouver’s Canada Line light rail project as an example. It opened in 2009 ahead of schedule for the 2010 Olympics. The $2 billion project connecting the airport to downtown was built with a combination of public and private financing, and SNC Lavalin has a 35-year concession to operate it.
The 26-km Eglinton line will run underground from about Black Creek Dr. to Kennedy Station and continue seamlessly above-ground on the route of what is now the Scarborough RT.
Getting it done on time will require having most of Eglinton dug up at the same time, warned one TTC source, who also questioned whether the private sector would be as responsive as civic government to public complaints about construction and operations.
Giving the project to Infrastructure Ontario would have the advantage of taking politics out of the equation, because once the contracts are awarded governments are obliged to carry through on their commitments, said TTC chair Karen Stintz.
But she said Vancouver’s Canada Line doesn’t compare to the Crosstown.
“They had different challenges. They weren’t tunneling under the heart of the city for the duration of the entire line,” she said.
Fare integration would be a minor problem compared with some of the complications of having the Crosstown privately operated, Stintz said.
“The largest hurdle will be how the line crosses over with the TTC’s lines, the interchange points, Yonge and Eglinton and at Bathurst and Allen Rd. If for some reason there’s a problem on the Crosstown line, what is the TTC’s response? Will they be expected to provide shuttle bus service or other service to meet those passengers?” she wondered.
“Ultimately it’s a Metrolinx project and it’s their money… . Metrolinx is the planning agency for transit and transportation for the GTA, and if this is the way they want to proceed, really there’s not much more we can do about it,” she said.
http://www.thestar.com/news/transpo...c-may-not-run-the-eglinton-crosstown-lrt?bn=1
junctionist
Senior Member
So far, in terms of station design, I'm relieved to see that there seems to be recognition among the Crosstown planners that unique and quality finishes to the stations, interesting architectural and urban design, and art are important for successful projects. It's amazing how simplistic many people get at these critical moments when we undertake massive infrastructure projects that will serve us for generations. People will start to trivialize design overwhelmed by the need for functional transit infrastructure. But if cheap stations are built, subsequent generations bemoan the city's ugliness and lack of ambition. Beauty and function must go hand in hand for the city to gain real achievements in the long run.
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drum118
Superstar
Union busting at its best and a better run system, if TTC does not operate the Eglinton Line and all other TC lines.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
P3 for building the project might not be a bad thing - not a big fan of BOT on the other hand.
AoD
AoD
DC83
Senior Member
Dunno if this has been posted, but there's a vid on BlogTO showing a proposed station:
http://www.blogto.com/city/2011/11/crosstown_station_plan_unveiled_but_who_will_build_it/
http://www.blogto.com/city/2011/11/crosstown_station_plan_unveiled_but_who_will_build_it/
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
So long as you don't have to pay additional fare to ride it.
sixrings
Senior Member
i am pro lrt. I am pro eglinton. but i am very concerned about p3 running the line especially regarding fares
DC83
Senior Member
Could you imagine!? That would be the biggest flop ever!
I doubt there would be a Private Partnership at this point, esp since the Crosstown doesn't even connect to Pearson.
nfitz
Superstar
Didn't look as high as high-floor - certainly didn't look as high as a subway platform. There will still be a bit of a platform - a bit more than a typical sidewalk curb - but it did look somewhat exaggerated in the video. I'd simply assume it was artistic licence or miscommunication (imagine my shock!), rather than indication that there's a sudden redesign!
Looking at the Star PPP article. I'm really having trouble finding something in it we didn't know months ago. It's no secret Metrolinx is considering PPP to build and operate. This has been stated a few times over the last couple of years. There doesn't seem to be any actual news, other than the fresh interviews.
Don't see real issue with the PPP operating it. That's how GO operates, and it's seamless. York has several different contractors operating bus services there, and the fares are the same. The PPP-operated Skytrain line in Vancouver has exactly the same fare structure/zones as the other one, with free transfers - most users probably have no idea that it's privately operated.
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