Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Marko]

That's a good idea gweed. If the lines can carry on west towards Square One and beyond, then other types of buses could use the ROW as well. That's the beauty of BRT is that the ROW doesn't have to be for a dedicated line, but can act as a bus expressway for any number of lines.

It could be there would be some expropriation issues they don't want to deal with right away, but that stretch of Eglinton has more than enough space to add dedicated ROW to whatever form of transit is chosen. If it's BRT in the short term, then it might prove a good test to see how BRT compares with LRT in terms of operational efficiency as well.

 

[gweed123]

That's a good idea gweed. If the lines can carry on west towards Square One and beyond, then other types of buses could use the ROW as well. That's the beauty of BRT is that the ROW doesn't have to be for a dedicated line, but can act as a bus expressway for any number of lines.

It could be there would be some expropriation issues they don't want to deal with right away, but that stretch of Eglinton has more than enough space to add dedicated ROW to whatever form of transit is chosen. If it's BRT in the short term, then it might prove a good test to see how BRT compares with LRT in terms of operational efficiency as well.

Thanks. And yes, the idea is that it would be used by both MT and TTC buses. Half the buses from the Mississauga Transitway would go to Kipling Stn, half would go to Jane/Black Creek station. As for the expropriation issues, I believe that corridor is publicly owned, so expropriation would not be an issue.

And yes, it would definitely be a 'pilot project' of sorts for dedicated ROW BRT in Toronto. It would be relatively cheap to construct (ballpark around $15M/km, so around $100 million for the whole corridor), and the projected ridership for that segment is well within what BRT can handle.

Looking at the aerial, it would run in a dedicated ROW from Martin Grove to Royal York, and then in curbside lanes from Royal York to Jane/Black Creek Station. It may even be able to get away with queue jump lanes from Royal York to Jane, because it's pretty much an expressway between those two points anyway, with only a couple traffic lights.

 

[sixrings]

JUst finish the LRT at grade with Half the stops from Jane till the Airport. I was hoping Liberals were going to put this in their funding plan.

 

[gweed123]

JUst finish the LRT at grade with Half the stops from Jane till the Airport. I was hoping Liberals were going to put this in their funding plan.

Why would you spend 3x as much to put in an LRT at-grade, when a BRT would be just as efficient?

And half the stops? You realize that then it wouldn't even stop at some of the major line roads right? At least with BRT you can have the Mississauga buses run express along the BRT route and terminate at Jane/Black Creek.

I'd rather but in an inexpensive, bare bones BRT now, and then when the funding and the demand is there, put in a trenched or at-grade with underpasses LRT.

 

[sixrings]

stops at major intersections, scarlet, royal york, isslington, kipling, martin grove.... THE SAUGA BRT can connect to the terminus of the LRT.... you ask why I want LRT. because NO transfers... similar to why ppl didnt want to transfer from bus to subway at sheppard don mills or lrt to subway.

 

[W. K. Lis]

There is 5 acres of land on Eglinton Avenue West at Widdicombe Hill Blvd. (between Kipling Avenue and Martin Grove Rd.) for sale. Just grass at the moment on the north side of Eglinton.See the PDF at this link.

SITE DESCRIPTION:
Vacant lands located between Martin Grove Rd., and Kipling Ave. The lands are in close proximity to rental apartment complexes to the north, and a retail strip plaza and school to the south. The sites are located within phase II of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT project, with a stop planned at Widdicombe Hill Blvd.

 

[gweed123]

stops at major intersections, scarlet, royal york, isslington, kipling, martin grove.... THE SAUGA BRT can connect to the terminus of the LRT.... you ask why I want LRT. because NO transfers... similar to why ppl didnt want to transfer from bus to subway at sheppard don mills or lrt to subway.

Getting over $500 million (assuming $60 million/km) to get the line to Renforth isn't in the cards right now. Doing the LRT right (grade-separated at intersections at least), would put that up to at least $700 million. That's definitely not in the cards right now. A temporary BRT for under $100 million could potentially be. It's a quick win, and it's a cheap win.

And there's a difference between a TEMPORARY transfer and a PERMANENT transfer. The transfer at Jane would have been the former, the transfer at Don Mills for the SELRT would have been the latter.

I'd rather have a bare bones BRT up and running at the same time as the LRT, than have nothing running until at least 5 years after the LRT opens while the planning and construction is going on the west segment. If the BRT is in place, that $600 million difference can go into improving transit somewhere else (Finch for example).

 

[gweed123]

There is 5 acres of land on Eglinton Avenue West at Widdicombe Hill Blvd. (between Kipling Avenue and Martin Grove Rd. for sale. Just grass at the moment on the north side of Eglinton.See the PDF at this link.

Selling off that corridor right now is a dumb idea. Period. At least wait until the project is under construction.

 

[smallspy]

A temporary BRT for under $100 million could potentially be. It's a quick win, and it's a cheap win.

What kind of temporary BRT are you expecting for under $100mil? Pre-empting traffic lights and snazzy new stops are about all that could be built with that kind of money.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Selling off that corridor right now is a dumb idea. Period. At least wait until the project is under construction.

Selling that portion of land means that it would be unavailable for a wide trench to be used for a heavy rail rapid transit (a Subway), but could leave a narrow room for a light rail rapid transit right-of-way.

 

[gweed123]

What kind of temporary BRT are you expecting for under $100mil? Pre-empting traffic lights and snazzy new stops are about all that could be built with that kind of money.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Dedicated ROW BRT with at-grade intersections can be built for about $15 million/km. It's literally just a roadway. No sewers or anything. The only spot where it would be wider than a 2 lane road would be at stops, where it would be 3 lanes (as stops would be farside stops, so on opposite sides of the intersection).

Just look at the York U Busway through the hydro corridor. That's the type of roadway I'm talking about.

Selling that portion of land means that it would be unavailable for a wide trench to be used for a heavy rail rapid transit (a Subway), but could leave a narrow room for a light rail rapid transit right-of-way.

An in-median LRT or a grade-separated LRT? I think the corridor should be preserved in its entirety until an alignment and configuration is chosen.

 

[smallspy]

Dedicated ROW BRT with at-grade intersections can be built for about $15 million/km. It's literally just a roadway. No sewers or anything. The only spot where it would be wider than a 2 lane road would be at stops, where it would be 3 lanes (as stops would be farside stops, so on opposite sides of the intersection).

And since you can't actually build anything without storm drains, how much will they add to the cost?

Just look at the York U Busway through the hydro corridor. That's the type of roadway I'm talking about.

Which is fine, but it's also a bad example as it doesn't have any stops. If anything, a better example would be the VIVA rapidway at Warden (although admittedly the stop shelters there are overkill).

An in-median LRT or a grade-separated LRT? I think the corridor should be preserved in its entirety until an alignment and configuration is chosen.

Agreed. Too bad our mayor and the City's manager feel that the City needs the money pronto.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[sixrings]

However an increased number of residents in walking proximity of Eglinton could cause justification of a extended LRT line to its original terminus, Pearson. Id bet though the residents in the future would be against elevated transit across the street from their condos. As a result it looks like ROW, or underground will be the future. It would have been better to have just said it was going to be elevated from Jane to the airport so that all future development would have known of this fact and the NIMBYism could have been kept to a minimal.

 

[gweed123]

And since you can't actually build anything without storm drains, how much will they add to the cost?

Rural roads don't have storm drains, they just have swales on the side to collect and funnel away water. Storm drain implies an actual pipe, which I'm saying we don't need.

Which is fine, but it's also a bad example as it doesn't have any stops. If anything, a better example would be the VIVA rapidway at Warden (although admittedly the stop shelters there are overkill).

A couple bus shelters is marginal in the cost of the overall project. Look at Iris Station on the Ottawa Transitway for what I have in mind. In fact, this section of the Transitway in general is pretty much what I'm proposing.

 

[Paleo]

Selling off that corridor right now is a dumb idea. Period. At least wait until the project is under construction.

Do you remember who is mayor right now?

The same people that shamelessly admit that they want to toss the entire Waterfront Toronto plan out for a quick cash grab just so they can trumpet to the masses that they froze property taxes for 2012!