Toronto BMO Field Renovations | ?m | ?s | MLSE | Gensler

[TOareaFan]

And MLSE will spend another 800K to put in a Fieldturf field near the Lakeshore Lions Arena.

I think the $800k is already in the $5.5 mil.

I think it is $3.5 mil on grass at BMO....$1.2 mill moving bubble to Lamport and $800k to build the pitch in Etobicoke (although I heard it was at a highschool in Etobicoke not the arena.....do they share grounds perhaps?)

 

[gweed123]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

 

[Wrk_InProgress]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

That means that MLSE and ROGERS would have to come to sort of agreement. I don't see that being a likely scenario.

 

[ladyscraper]

That is a huge commitment from MLSE to make this happen and it doesnt compromise the community use at all. City council really has no reason to vote against this. It's a win-win situation.

 

[nfitz]

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

It would be interesting to see a few games in there ... but it's not a soccer stadium. The sight-lines are terrible. The seating doesn't come up to the field propertly. Look at this configuration for Canadian football. You lose all the atmosphere, with the fans so far away from the pitch .. which only get's worse for soccer, with the shorter field.

And it does nothing to address the biggest issue at BMO field; the lack of natural grass. It's been hard to attract big-name players and teams to Toronto because of the field turf at BMO Field; for the Real Madrid game they spent a $¼-million to put in real grass for a single game. The Skydome just isn't an option, unless TFC became the sole tenant, and the seating was completely reconfigured ... and I don't see that being done.

With the push in North America towards soccer-specific stadiums, going for this option would be a major step backwards.

 

[TOareaFan]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

Rogers has been tried for soccer on a few ocassions and it is only passable as a soccer stadium. I don't think I have ever heard anyone suggest that BMO will ever reach the 55k size....I think the most I have heard is 35k - 40k but even then on a very gradual basis.

The biggest problems with Rogers as a soccer stadium are that the low seats are too low (meaning you can't see past the various people on the ground)....of note that is the same problem it has for football (notice the Argos cover the low seats on the 100 level) and the higher seats are too far back and far away.....BMO is very nice little soccer stadium with the fans close to action...building up (in the same sort of spartan/basic way the current stadium is built) on the sides with no seats or only one level of seats should be able to get them to the 30k - 35k range without losing too much of that closeness or intimacy....

...the reality is that SkyDome was built as a very good baseball stadium (based on the then current thinking...ie pre-retro stadium era) that can be a passable football/soccer stadium but not a very good one.

 

[TOareaFan]

That is a huge commitment from MLSE to make this happen and it doesnt compromise the community use at all. City council really has no reason to vote against this. It's a win-win situation.

The community gains....the community usage increases with complete summer access to the new field and winter access to Lamport.

The only people who would/could oppose this are the folks (and I hear there are more than a couple on council) who would rather see Lamport torn down and replaced with a park. They might oppose this plan because it sorta cements Lamport's position and makes it necessary again.

 

[nfitz]

I doubt they'll have any chance to do much before the September 30th vote. The real challenge was convincing the CNE board and Joe Pantalone (local councillor, chariman of Exhibition Place). With the board and in particular with Pantalone and the Mayor in favour, I can't for a minute imagine that City Council wouldn't approve something where the City gets a lot of benefits, doesn't pay a cent, and has a written guarantee that MLSE will pay any cost overruns.

 

[Automation Gallery]

The only people who would/could oppose this are the folks (and I hear there are more than a couple on council) who would rather see Lamport torn down and replaced with a park. They might oppose this plan because it sorta cements Lamport's position and makes it necessary again.

I think that Lambort Stadium was cemented as a public sports field and the park plan shelved about a year or so ago when they installed the 1 million dollar Field-Turf.

 

[waterloowarrior]

Time for a field of grass: MLSE
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/time-for-a-field-of-grass-mlse/article1283901/

Owners of Toronto FC asks Exhibition Place board of directors for approval to replace artificial surf with the real stuff

Article Comments (10)
TORONTO —
Last updated on Friday, Sep. 11, 2009 11:41AM EDT

The board of governors for Exhibition Place approved Friday morning plans by Maple Leafs Sport and Entertainment to replace the artificial surface used by Toronto FC for soccer matches with natural grass.

The plan, which has the backing of the MLS franchise's passionate fan base, still requires approval from Toronto city council before MLSE can move ahead with the change.

As part of a proposal that would see MLSE spend $5.5-million at BMO Field, Lamport Stadium and a site in Etobicoke near Lakeshore Lions Arena, the pro sport group said it was offering a "no risk" upgrade of the rapidly degenerating artificial surface.

"The expected eight-year life of the artificial turf was pretty much gone after two," MLSE official Bob Hunter told Exhibition directors Friday.

While the success of the soccer franchise at the goverment-financed $62-million BMO facility has been a matter of record - MLSE boss Richard Peddle confirmed today the first three years of the TFC had been profitable - the artificial turf has been a major problem.

An exhibition match with European powerhouse Real Madrid almost was called off until the artificial surface was covered and real grass installed over top of it.

"The Real Madrid game had a $10-million economic impact (on the city) but it almost didn't happen," Hunter said.

He also said the long-term effects of the artificial surface on the legs of players was discouraging good players from coming to TFC, or staying with a team that is still seeking its first MLS playoff berth.

"We lost two players, one of whom loved the city and the atmosphere but because he was older (he) went to play on natural grass in San Jose," Hunter said.

The improvements to the Lamport and Lakeshore fields would increase the community soccer capacity substantially, MLSE said in its proposal and there would still be some use of the BMO facility.

"The (artificial) turf was installed for all the right reasons, but now it's time to transfer the goals (of community use) somewhere else," said Hunter.

He said natural grass -- the excavation would start late in 2009 and grass laid early 2010 -- would attract more international events to grow the game, and that the Canadian Soccer Association would benefit from more exposure of the game and national programs in the largest city in Canada.

 

[wyliepoon]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

It's a likely scenario if TFC gets far in the CONCACAF Champions League, and is forced to play a game in the middle of winter. It happened to the Montreal Impact this February and 55,000+ showed up for the game. However I don't see it working for the MLS season - the friendly confines of BMO Field would seem much more appropriate for such a tense atmosphere.

 

[Jarrek]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

Because heavens forbid that we have two stadiums of the same size! European cities have dozens, literally dozens of stadia that are anywhere from 10,000 and up capacity. Surely Toronto can accommodate a couple.

 

[isaidso]

Rogers has been tried for soccer on a few ocassions and it is only passable as a soccer stadium.

Skydome is barely passable as a football stadium either. Skydome is no more suitable for soccer than it is suitable for the Argonauts. It's a baseball stadium despite what they say. Soccer should stay at BMO and hopefully football will get a proper home one day too. The Skydome is an atmosphere killer.

 

[Swarley]

All this talk about expanding stadiums, when there's a 55,000 seat stadium sitting right down the Gardiner. I know it's not real grass, but why not try it out for a few games and see what the response is? The Rogers Centre was designed to be versatile, and I know that CFL fields and soccer fields are nearly the same size.

All I'm saying is playing a few games (or half a season, or 1 season, whatever) at the Rogers Centre may be a good way to gauge just how much interest is actually out there. If they sell it out (or come close to it), why not stay there? Having 2 stadiums with nearly the same capacity (if BMO were expanded by 20,000, it would be only 15,000 less than the Rogers Centre) is kind of redundant dont you think?

I can't see MLSE ever agreeing to this... the atmosphere of BMO is one of the best things TFC has going for it, the Skydome would just ruin that. And there would inevitably be thousands of empty seats.... 55,000 just isn't sustainable.

 

[TOareaFan]

Skydome is barely passable as a football stadium either. Skydome is no more suitable for soccer than it is suitable for the Argonauts. It's a baseball stadium despite what they say. Soccer should stay at BMO and hopefully football will get a proper home one day too. The Skydome is an atmosphere killer.

Which is why, in the same quote of mine that you shortened I said:

...the reality is that SkyDome was built as a very good baseball stadium (based on the then current thinking...ie pre-retro stadium era) that can be a passable football/soccer stadium but not a very good one.