Toronto Berczy Park Revitalization | ?m | ?s

maestro · Oct 31, 2016

The poles the TTC chose are the ugliest utilitarian metal poles with a solid core meaning everything has to go on the outside. The streetcar power grid remains as it was; draped in the sky about or sidewalks. Hydro, again, has a little more on their plate than to worry like the failing underground street lighting grids in the suburbs than the aesthetics of not removing some old poles.

pman · Oct 31, 2016

maestro said:
The poles the TTC chose are the ugliest utilitarian metal poles with a solid core meaning everything has to go on the outside. The streetcar power grid remains as it was; draped in the sky about or sidewalks. Hydro, again, has a little more on their plate than to worry like the failing underground street lighting grids in the suburbs than the aesthetics of not removing some old poles.

The argument that TH can't afford fancy frills like burying wires on main streets or removing long-unused poles would be a little more persuasive if other cities in North America, Australia and Europe had similar crappy infrastructure. However, the norm in most first world cities except Toronto is that main streets don't get the shabbiest possible Hydro and street light infrastructure. And this exuberantly ugly result can't be because we do such a great job of cost control if our hydro bills are anything to go by.

maestro · Oct 31, 2016

Last I heard, Toronto Hydro needs about 2 billion to bring everything to standard but, has only 1.2 billion to work with. Other cities may afford their power providers what they need or concentrate on beautifying tourist areas at the expense of the more hidden areas. Regardless, it's a apples to orange comparison to make. The parts of Europe I know chose to bury the power infrastructure at the onset. Toronto cheaped out until the mid 1960s or whenever it was when we started burying our power grid. It's still not a fair comparison.

There's a subdivision in Rosedale where the developer went against the minimum standard and buried all the wires in the 1920s. AFAIK, that neighbourhood is still overhead wire free to this day. If only more developers of the time followed suit. In the 1960s through 1970s they cheaped out by using wires that were design to be strung underground outside of conduits for street lighting. These have been failing for years and replacement requires new underground conduits to be installed as Toronto Hydro's first and foremost requirement is to keep the streets lit. Entire subdivisions in Scarborough, North York , Etobicoke had and continue to be dug up at great expense. So, you may have to be more patience for these beautification projects to happen. Those won't resolve the TTC's above ground infrastructure either.

Momin · Nov 1, 2016

Latest write-up: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/10/landscaping-and-feline-animating-downtowns-berczy-park

Edward Skira · Nov 1, 2016

DSC said:
They have a contact with the City to provide street lighting but it seems to me that it is somewhat one-sided as the City seems unable to get them to do anything other than the bare minimum of 'providing adequate lighting on the streets'. This contract is up for renewal so it MAY be adjusted, I hope!

This confuses me. Doesn't the City of Toronto own Toronto Hydro? Hence as owner can't they tell them what to do?

tripwire · Nov 1, 2016

I love how this park is shaping up, though I'm a bit dismayed at how long it took. I'm really excited about the changes that's planned to happen at Moss Park and St. James Park -> those are bigger than Berczy, and I wonder how long they will take.

DSC · Nov 1, 2016

Edward Skira said:
This confuses me. Doesn't the City of Toronto own Toronto Hydro? Hence as owner can't they tell them what to do?

TH is a self-governing corporation who have a CEO and a Board. At the moment the City is the sole shareholder and appoints the Board. Presumably the City can give its nominee Directors instructions (but they seem not to on 'operational matters' and the Board can presumably give direction to the CEO but I suspect they don't. Their website says:

Did you know? Toronto Hydro Corporation is a holding company which wholly owns Toronto Hydro-Electric System Limited and Toronto Energy Services Inc.

Toronto Hydro-Electric System Limited owns and operates an electricity distribution system which delivers electricity to approximately 740,000 customers located in the City of Toronto. It is the largest municipal electricity distribution company in Canada and distributes approximately 18% of the electricity consumed in Ontario.

Toronto Hydro Energy Services Inc. provides street lighting services to the City of Toronto.

Their Board is:

BOARD OF DIRECTORS
The Board of Directors of the Corporation is responsible for supervising management of the business and affairs of the Corporation. The Board of Directors of the Corporation is composed of eight independent directors and three city councillors. All directors are appointed by the sole shareholder of the Corporation. The Board of Directors has four regularly scheduled meetings each year but meets as often as is necessary to fulfill its responsibilities to the Corporation.

Skeezix · Nov 1, 2016

Toronto Hydro's main objective is to safely supply hydro to its customers. For obvious reasons, that needs to be Toronto Hydro's primary focus, and the officers running the corporation are judged primarily on that basis. One of the reasons Toronto Hydro is a separate corporate entity is to allow it to meet its obligations with a minimum of political interference. Council could direct the Board, which it ultimately controls, to ensure that Hydro follows all of the City's beautification initiatives. But these things cost money. There are the potential optics of diverting money from maintenance and upgrades of the hydro system to aesthetics (I say that not meaning to minimize the importance of public realm issues). The City received an annual dividend from Toronto Hydro (last year it was $56 million), and the more the City tells Hydro to install above-standard light standards, etc. etc., the less that dividend is going to be. At the end of the day, the money comes out of the City's pockets, and in some ways the City quite likes being able to blame Toronto Hydro.

DSC · Nov 1, 2016

The first dogs are on the fountain, they are bubble-wrapped but ...

interchange42 · Nov 3, 2016

Skeezix said:
Toronto Hydro's main objective is to safely supply hydro to its customers. For obvious reasons, that needs to be Toronto Hydro's primary focus, and the officers running the corporation are judged primarily on that basis. One of the reasons Toronto Hydro is a separate corporate entity is to allow it to meet its obligations with a minimum of political interference. Council could direct the Board, which it ultimately controls, to ensure that Hydro follows all of the City's beautification initiatives. But these things cost money. There are the potential optics of diverting money from maintenance and upgrades of the hydro system to aesthetics (I say that not meaning to minimize the importance of public realm issues). The City received an annual dividend from Toronto Hydro (last year it was $56 million), and the more the City tells Hydro to install above-standard light standards, etc. etc., the less that dividend is going to be. At the end of the day, the money comes out of the City's pockets, and in some ways the City quite likes being able to blame Toronto Hydro.

In a civic utopia, one could argue that the Hydro dividend from one year could be put towards burying power infrastructure the next year (and that the money wasn't needed for more important things).

42

AlvinofDiaspar · Nov 3, 2016

DSC said:
The first dogs are on the fountain, they are bubble-wrapped but ...

...the satanic cat is conspiring to keep them that way.

AoD

Christopher Brown · Nov 3, 2016

AlvinofDiaspar said:
...the satanic cat is conspiring to keep them that way.

AoD

Hahahaha.

skycandy · Nov 3, 2016

Taken this morning...progress on several fronts.

sunnyraytoronto · Nov 6, 2016

Skeezix said:
Toronto Hydro's main objective is to safely supply hydro to its customers. For obvious reasons, that needs to be Toronto Hydro's primary focus, and the officers running the corporation are judged primarily on that basis. One of the reasons Toronto Hydro is a separate corporate entity is to allow it to meet its obligations with a minimum of political interference. Council could direct the Board, which it ultimately controls, to ensure that Hydro follows all of the City's beautification initiatives. But these things cost money. There are the potential optics of diverting money from maintenance and upgrades of the hydro system to aesthetics (I say that not meaning to minimize the importance of public realm issues). The City received an annual dividend from Toronto Hydro (last year it was $56 million), and the more the City tells Hydro to install above-standard light standards, etc. etc., the less that dividend is going to be. At the end of the day, the money comes out of the City's pockets, and in some ways the City quite likes being able to blame Toronto Hydro.

All that could be coming to a head soon,.... Toronto Hydro's $60million annual dividend to city or grid upgrades,.... and city missing out on $60million annually which amounts to 2% of budget,...
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/11/06/toronto-hydro-eyes-ending-60m-yearly-gift-to-city.html

skycandy · Nov 8, 2016

Good steady progress in many areas. Stonework nearing its completion. Considerable work including tree plantings near the mural. New fountain (ok it's tiny). Polishing off the work on Scott St.