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notyouagain
Guest
The public can see old city hall now. Why invent a new public purpose when it seves perfectly well as a courthouse.
Toronto Bathurst Quay Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Kearns Mancini
The public can see old city hall now. Why invent a new public purpose when it seves perfectly well as a courthouse.
There might be more pleasant ways to see that building than from the wrong end of a provincial statute.
Seriously, why not find new uses for the building that actually celebrate its architecture? Facilities like a museum and a library branch would allow access to many more people than see it currently.
42
Seriously, why not find new uses for the building that actually celebrate its architecture? Facilities like a museum and a library branch would allow access to many more people than see it currently.
42
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notyouagain
Guest
Why not celebrate its current use? The public would find the proceedings therein highly entertaining. I think the Old Bailey (sp?) in London is a huge tourist draw.
Tewder
Senior Member
The mass appeal of it will depend largely on the quality and creativity of the exhibits, and on the centrality of its waterfront location. It will also have to be viewed as 'entertaining' as well as informative, and then word of mouth would take care of the rest. The potential is enormous here given the creative and technical resources available in the city.
jn_12
Senior Member
notyouagain:it's already been confirmed that the Old City Hall will become a museum. The lease with the courts will not be renewed.
We're essentially just debating whether the Toronto Museum should go in an old building that is steeped in Toronto History, or a new building that would be iconic on the waterfront and meld the old with the new.
We're essentially just debating whether the Toronto Museum should go in an old building that is steeped in Toronto History, or a new building that would be iconic on the waterfront and meld the old with the new.
ShonTron
Moderator
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But there are few juicy trials here. If you want that, you have to go to 383 University. I doubt bail hearings, provincial offenses and traffic tickets are much of a draw.
N
notyouagain
Guest
The Ontario Court of Justice presides over much more than that. In fact, I think the vast majority of criminal matters including trials are handled by the Ontario Court.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
It'll be interesting to see how much money the City can get from the Feds and the Province for this thing, given how little the City contributed to the cost of constructing any of Toronto's recent cultural buildings. And, if they turn to the private sector, will donor fatigue after all those other projects be apparent? After all, the Royal Conservatory is going to have to fundraise quite a lot more because their budget has almost doubled - and they're an existing institution. Funding it through a co-developer, who'll build a hotel or a condo or whatever, reminds me of the approach taken with the old O'Keefe Centre building - turning it into a vaguely artsy-fartsy/multi-culti/touchy-feely thing that, fingers crossed, will become a tourist attraction of some sort.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
... and here's John Barber's take on that last point:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080604.BARBER04/TPStory/TPComment/?query=
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080604.BARBER04/TPStory/TPComment/?query=
casaguy
Senior Member
Toronto scraps museum project, plans to raze site instead
photo by casaguy
Heritage officials decry demolition of Malting complex
Brodie Fenlon
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Tuesday, Sep. 01, 2009 04:23AM EDT
The City of Toronto has abandoned plans to build a $100-million history museum at the foot of Bathurst Street.
The Toronto Museum Project was to spearhead the restoration of the old Canada Malting complex and its crumbling silos, with a potential waterfront condo and hotel development on the 1.4-hectare site at Eireann Quay.
There had been wide support on council for the plan, public consultations and endorsements by a board of "champions," including Sarmite Bulte and David Crombie.
But officials, citing the recession, are now looking seriously at Old City Hall as a future venue for the Toronto history museum, while the city's chief corporate office has recommended the entire Canada Malting site be razed but for a small "symbolic outline" at a cost of $8.4-million.
That's despite opposition from the city's own heritage preservation services and the Toronto preservation board, which want the silos restored at a cost of $17.7-million. The mayor's executive committee will vote on the two competing visions next week.
Rita Davies, the city's executive director of culture, said the Toronto Museum Project – at one time known as "Humanitas" – was a victim of the economy, which hindered the search for a private-sector partner to develop it.
"Because the economy changed so dramatically in October of last year, we had to put that plan on hold for the time being," she said. "It's certainly not an active proposition at the moment."
Ms. Davies said the dream for the non-profit museum, a "broad and dynamic" space that tells the whole 11,000-year history of Toronto, is still alive. She said the city's focus has shifted to Old City Hall, which has been leased by the province since 1972 and is used as a provincial court.
City council voted last May to serve notice that the lease won't be renewed when it expires at the end of 2016 so the historic building can be used for a public attraction.
"It certainly is a good site for a museum because it's where people are," said Peggy Mooney, executive director of Heritage Toronto.
Ms. Mooney is less enthusiastic about the demolition of the Canada Malting silos, a designated heritage site, which she said are the last surviving industrial structures on the western waterfront. "We believe it's really important that we save them," she said.
The site, built in 1928 with additions in 1944, has significant structural defects, including unsafe marine legs and falling concrete. Public access to adjacent Ireland Park was restricted along its east side.
City staff considered five plans that ranged from complete preservation of the buildings at $20-million to total demolition at $7.6-million. Either way, the city must spend an extra $3.8-million to repair the east dock wall.
Councillor Adam Vaughan said money is short and preserving all the silos would be a gamble. "Everything I've read in the engineer's report tells me that these silos are in a great deal of trouble," he said.
However, he wants the nine southern silos preserved in their entirety, not the recommended "symbolic representation" which involves cutting them down to about four feet above grade level.
Mr. Vaughan said the site in his ward could be used for "anything," but he's not taking seriously the long-dormant Metronome proposal for a "music city" with education centre, offices and performance space that was first approved for the land in 1999.
The deal collapsed when the non-profit foundation behind it couldn't raise enough money in time. Many thought it was dead, but the foundation applied this month for a $20-million infrastructure stimulus grant from the federal government, although it has yet to approach the province and city for matching funds.
"Anybody who's been at this as long as I have is obviously an optimist," said foundation president John Harris. "I think this may be our best chance yet."
Neither Mr. Vaughan or the city's culture department has heard from Mr. Harris about his revived plans.
photo by casaguy
Heritage officials decry demolition of Malting complex
Brodie Fenlon
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail
Last updated on Tuesday, Sep. 01, 2009 04:23AM EDT
The City of Toronto has abandoned plans to build a $100-million history museum at the foot of Bathurst Street.
The Toronto Museum Project was to spearhead the restoration of the old Canada Malting complex and its crumbling silos, with a potential waterfront condo and hotel development on the 1.4-hectare site at Eireann Quay.
There had been wide support on council for the plan, public consultations and endorsements by a board of "champions," including Sarmite Bulte and David Crombie.
But officials, citing the recession, are now looking seriously at Old City Hall as a future venue for the Toronto history museum, while the city's chief corporate office has recommended the entire Canada Malting site be razed but for a small "symbolic outline" at a cost of $8.4-million.
That's despite opposition from the city's own heritage preservation services and the Toronto preservation board, which want the silos restored at a cost of $17.7-million. The mayor's executive committee will vote on the two competing visions next week.
Rita Davies, the city's executive director of culture, said the Toronto Museum Project – at one time known as "Humanitas" – was a victim of the economy, which hindered the search for a private-sector partner to develop it.
"Because the economy changed so dramatically in October of last year, we had to put that plan on hold for the time being," she said. "It's certainly not an active proposition at the moment."
Ms. Davies said the dream for the non-profit museum, a "broad and dynamic" space that tells the whole 11,000-year history of Toronto, is still alive. She said the city's focus has shifted to Old City Hall, which has been leased by the province since 1972 and is used as a provincial court.
City council voted last May to serve notice that the lease won't be renewed when it expires at the end of 2016 so the historic building can be used for a public attraction.
"It certainly is a good site for a museum because it's where people are," said Peggy Mooney, executive director of Heritage Toronto.
Ms. Mooney is less enthusiastic about the demolition of the Canada Malting silos, a designated heritage site, which she said are the last surviving industrial structures on the western waterfront. "We believe it's really important that we save them," she said.
The site, built in 1928 with additions in 1944, has significant structural defects, including unsafe marine legs and falling concrete. Public access to adjacent Ireland Park was restricted along its east side.
City staff considered five plans that ranged from complete preservation of the buildings at $20-million to total demolition at $7.6-million. Either way, the city must spend an extra $3.8-million to repair the east dock wall.
Councillor Adam Vaughan said money is short and preserving all the silos would be a gamble. "Everything I've read in the engineer's report tells me that these silos are in a great deal of trouble," he said.
However, he wants the nine southern silos preserved in their entirety, not the recommended "symbolic representation" which involves cutting them down to about four feet above grade level.
Mr. Vaughan said the site in his ward could be used for "anything," but he's not taking seriously the long-dormant Metronome proposal for a "music city" with education centre, offices and performance space that was first approved for the land in 1999.
The deal collapsed when the non-profit foundation behind it couldn't raise enough money in time. Many thought it was dead, but the foundation applied this month for a $20-million infrastructure stimulus grant from the federal government, although it has yet to approach the province and city for matching funds.
"Anybody who's been at this as long as I have is obviously an optimist," said foundation president John Harris. "I think this may be our best chance yet."
Neither Mr. Vaughan or the city's culture department has heard from Mr. Harris about his revived plans.
B
barit
Guest
Basterds!
Automation Gallery
Superstar
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
I really hope the actual silos can be saved and re-purposed. The exterior is in really bad shape and by reading the article so are the footings. Up close you can see that a lot of loose concrete has been removed and troubling cracks in the structure are also visible. Time is of the essence here.
I took some shots of the silos posted under the "Toronto Parks" thread when I photographed Ireland Park in the summer of 2008 if anyone is interested -
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=9123&page=3 - post #42
I took some shots of the silos posted under the "Toronto Parks" thread when I photographed Ireland Park in the summer of 2008 if anyone is interested -
http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=9123&page=3 - post #42
Northern Magus
Active Member
It's sad (and almost unbelievable) that these heritage structures might actually be razed.
Toronto would do well to fight for and preserve heritage structures such as these. And imo they would be perfect for an anchor-type of waterfront attraction such as a museum or gallery.
Toronto would do well to fight for and preserve heritage structures such as these. And imo they would be perfect for an anchor-type of waterfront attraction such as a museum or gallery.
SP!RE
°°°°°°
So, let me see... they have:
1.) -----------------------------
2.) decided to demolish the old malting silos.
That's a double whammy. I can't even begin to say how upset I am, although losing the silos is the more troubling point to me. They give such a sense of place on that stretch of Queen's Quay. Gahhh... this sucks.
Maybe enough outcry would mean something would have to be done, and by the time they spent money on saving the silos, they'd go "oh what the hell, we'd may as well continue and use some of this money to create a museum"... one can dream.
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EDIT: Just read the part about the Toronto museum likely being put in Old City Hall. I didn't realize they had actually decided to not renew the lease for the Provincial Courts in 2016-- that's really good to have some cold hard facts pointing to the future of that building. I feel a bit better now.
But the Malting Silos are still a whole other huge matter.
1.) -----------------------------
2.) decided to demolish the old malting silos.
That's a double whammy. I can't even begin to say how upset I am, although losing the silos is the more troubling point to me. They give such a sense of place on that stretch of Queen's Quay. Gahhh... this sucks.
Maybe enough outcry would mean something would have to be done, and by the time they spent money on saving the silos, they'd go "oh what the hell, we'd may as well continue and use some of this money to create a museum"... one can dream.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Just read the part about the Toronto museum likely being put in Old City Hall. I didn't realize they had actually decided to not renew the lease for the Provincial Courts in 2016-- that's really good to have some cold hard facts pointing to the future of that building. I feel a bit better now.
But the Malting Silos are still a whole other huge matter.
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