marcus_a_j
Senior Member
Thanks @sunnyraytoronto Forget Doris Ave. extension. Forget any condos or other buildings. Let's just turn the site into park space!
Toronto 55 Sheppard East | 45.41m | 14s
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Thanks @sunnyraytoronto Forget Doris Ave. extension. Forget any condos or other buildings. Let's just turn the site into park space!
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
The idea of a temporary park until road construction (optimistically 2021 now) has been floated around but no funding and not viewed as priority,... especially given the public outrage years ago when the beautiful rose-garden park was destroyed for Menkes GibsonSquare - that rose garden "park" was temporarily set up as POPS (Privately Owned Publicly Accessible Space) until land ready for development but locals interpreted as "their" park!
Here the land belongs to Transportation Services for Doris Ave south extension; as policy they will sod it over likely this Spring,... as they did with 2 & 10 Bonnington that were acquired years ago as part of Tridel HullmarkCentre development settlement (off-site density transfers) so it'll at least look like a park temporarily, but no tables, benches, amenities, not even regular maintenance,... then it's up to the locals,... some could step up and clean up once in a while but some will let their dogs crap all over the place without picking up,..... but once the area accumulates so much trash that an area resident calls in a complaint - then City will be forced to send someone to clean up!
Here the land belongs to Transportation Services for Doris Ave south extension; as policy they will sod it over likely this Spring,... as they did with 2 & 10 Bonnington that were acquired years ago as part of Tridel HullmarkCentre development settlement (off-site density transfers) so it'll at least look like a park temporarily, but no tables, benches, amenities, not even regular maintenance,... then it's up to the locals,... some could step up and clean up once in a while but some will let their dogs crap all over the place without picking up,..... but once the area accumulates so much trash that an area resident calls in a complaint - then City will be forced to send someone to clean up!
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
For @marcus_a_j who used to live in one of the former bungalows on this site,....
Joni Mitchell "Big Yellow Taxi" chorus:
"Don't it always seem to go"
"That you don't know what you've got"
"Till it's gone"
"They paved paradise"
"And put up a parking lot"
Actually,... not parking lot & illegal parking problem gone now,...
It's a park!,... err,... no, not a park,... but it looks like a park, sort of,.... nope, officially it's just grass sod on City land - so dirt doesn't blow all over the place,....
No park benches, but you can sit on the rocks!,... no recycle/garbage bins,... no park signage,.... no amenities,....
It sure looks like a park!,... so can we treat it like a public park? Soccer? Football?,....
Joni Mitchell "Big Yellow Taxi" chorus:
"Don't it always seem to go"
"That you don't know what you've got"
"Till it's gone"
"They paved paradise"
"And put up a parking lot"
Actually,... not parking lot & illegal parking problem gone now,...
It's a park!,... err,... no, not a park,... but it looks like a park, sort of,.... nope, officially it's just grass sod on City land - so dirt doesn't blow all over the place,....
No park benches, but you can sit on the rocks!,... no recycle/garbage bins,... no park signage,.... no amenities,....
It sure looks like a park!,... so can we treat it like a public park? Soccer? Football?,....
Attachments
NYk Drne
Active Member
What is the status of the plan now with the change in Toronto Government and the dispute over the plans for Yonge Street between Finch, Sheppard and the 401?
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
From my update 2 years ago,... the investor who owned all properties along west-side of Bonnington Place (required for Doris extension south of Sheppard) got his properties expropriated (started in 2014) but in 2016, City gave investor check based on 2014 prices.
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/toronto-55-sheppard-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-3
Property value increased about 20% each year from 2014 to 2016; investor felt cheated and appealed to OMB - who sided with investor but can only reward investor maximum of 12% extra per year (not the 20% per year increase)
https://www.omb.gov.on.ca/ecs/CaseDetail.aspx?n=LC160001
Now City owns all properties along west-side of Bonnington Place; required for Doris extension south of Sheppard.
- City still need 69 Glendora Ave (southwest corner of Glendora & Tradewind Ave); haven't started expropriation here.
- City also still need to deal for land north of Sheppard & east of Doris Ave.
Local councillor would like to see Doris extension south of Sheppard completed sooner rather than later but City Staff not placing priority on it! City Staff trying to time Doris extension south with 4-lane Transform Yonge to minimize Before/After impact of Transform Yonge 2 lane reduction. City Staff playing games.
Starting around here, I already highlighted the technical reason why 4-lanes Transform Yonge is deeply flawed along with issues with 6-lanes Enhance Yonge & Transform Beecroft
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...scape-improvements.25913/page-27#post-1317411
Status of Transform Yonge:
- Local councillor who supported Transform Yonge was re-elected with only 31% (2nd lowest in City) and far below his usual 55-65% support
- New City Council seems less progressive than before & 4 new councillors won on promise of fighting for their constituents and avoiding Party politics
- Mayor Tory still strongly oppose Transform Yonge (as do most locals); which councillors the Mayor place on various committees will determine how effective the Mayor will be in next 4 years
- Mayor Tory recently mentioned, City Staff been given instruction to redo some of their plans???
- City Council waiting on TTC report on impact of Transform Yonge lane reduction on Finch Bus Terminal - City Staff refuse to share Traffic Model; thus, I'm expecting TTC's Traffic Model will show City Staff's Transform Yonge Traffic Model to be total BS!
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NYk Drne
Active Member
Thanks Sunnyray; I had quickly scanned your earlier posts; I have been following the Transform Yonge discussions with interest. Obviously there are strong opinions on all sides of this one.
With change in Toronto council, we will see what happens.
With change in Toronto council, we will see what happens.
Gratty
New Member
Sunnyray,
The local coucillor had 17 opponents (2nd highest in the city). He still got 57% more votes than the second place finisher (10th best result in the city out of 25 wards). The candidates that were unequivocally against Transform Yonge had terrible results and couldn't even place 2nd.
You say "most locals" oppose Transform Yonge. Really? what's the source of this info? The majority of my neighbours in the community support it strongly.
Mayor Tory likes to hide behind politically expedient sound bites, like his refusal to ‘eliminate lanes’ on Yonge. But he fails to acknowledge 8 new lanes have been added on ring roads east and west of Yonge, with planned extensions to further divert traffic from Yonge. Yonge isn’t congested because its existing 6 lanes are inadequate. It mostly gets congested because we now have 14 north-south lanes, on Yonge and the 2 ring roads, merging into just 6 lanes outside North York Centre.
The 8 ring road lanes allow for the redeployment of 2 Yonge lanes to create a more pedestrian friendly main street, without materially impacting congestion. Space to widen sidewalks and introduce bike lanes.
Mayor Tory wants to spend millions more to run bike lanes on a ring road. But you can’t create a ‘destination’ main street putting bike lanes ‘around and away’ from that main street! Especially with the inevitable Yonge subway extension bringing massive density a short bike ride north of North York Centre. Gretzky said you need to go where the puck is going. Mayor Tory should listen to the Great One, if he wants to be remembered as a great mayor.
Speaking of where the puck is going... that Bus depot will be gone when the subway gets extended north. We need to build the right infrastructure for the next 40-50 years.
The local coucillor had 17 opponents (2nd highest in the city). He still got 57% more votes than the second place finisher (10th best result in the city out of 25 wards). The candidates that were unequivocally against Transform Yonge had terrible results and couldn't even place 2nd.
You say "most locals" oppose Transform Yonge. Really? what's the source of this info? The majority of my neighbours in the community support it strongly.
Mayor Tory likes to hide behind politically expedient sound bites, like his refusal to ‘eliminate lanes’ on Yonge. But he fails to acknowledge 8 new lanes have been added on ring roads east and west of Yonge, with planned extensions to further divert traffic from Yonge. Yonge isn’t congested because its existing 6 lanes are inadequate. It mostly gets congested because we now have 14 north-south lanes, on Yonge and the 2 ring roads, merging into just 6 lanes outside North York Centre.
The 8 ring road lanes allow for the redeployment of 2 Yonge lanes to create a more pedestrian friendly main street, without materially impacting congestion. Space to widen sidewalks and introduce bike lanes.
Mayor Tory wants to spend millions more to run bike lanes on a ring road. But you can’t create a ‘destination’ main street putting bike lanes ‘around and away’ from that main street! Especially with the inevitable Yonge subway extension bringing massive density a short bike ride north of North York Centre. Gretzky said you need to go where the puck is going. Mayor Tory should listen to the Great One, if he wants to be remembered as a great mayor.
Speaking of where the puck is going... that Bus depot will be gone when the subway gets extended north. We need to build the right infrastructure for the next 40-50 years.
11th
Senior Member
It depends how you interpret the numbers. According to a previous Star report, your local councillor was the only candidate who overwhelmingly support putting bike lanes on Yonge. So you can also say of the people who voted in Willowdale, only 31% overwhelmingly support that plan, with the other ~70% prefer alternatives.
As some others have already pointed out in this thread, Yonge Street North York is already a destination. It is not Queen West and it may not be pretty, but it has its own thing going. I understand though it's a matter of personal preference.
Gratty
New Member
The second place finisher supported a "3-6 month lane reduction and bike lane pilot" to gather data. So the top 2 finishers by far, representing over 50% of the vote, support removing lanes or testing the removal of lanes. I don't have time to go through all the platforms, but another candidate with 5% of the vote supported a variation of removing traffic lanes and adding bike lanes (transform yonge with tweaks). Clearly, the election results do not point to majority opposition to the concept of removing traffic lanes for wider sidewalks/bike lanes, etc.
When only one option is provided across a wide area, it becomes a destination of convenience, more than choice. The Scarborough town centre, and plazas at Jane & Finch can be considered destinations.
My best friend lives in the Beach and our families often meet for dinner somewhere in between, the Danforth, Leaside, etc. Sometimes we even meet in the Beach. Whenever I suggest meeting in NYCC, he says "no way man, your area is sh#@t". I don't entirely agree with him. NYCC has its "own thing going", but it could be so so much more, if we just let the ring roads serve their purpose.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
BTW, the former land-owner of this 55 Shepppard East also managed to assemble/owned all the land along eastside of Bonnington; thus this "fake" 55 Sheppard East proposal was really the Land-Owner/Real-Estate-Mogul/LandAssembler/Developer's way to force the City to deal with the Doris South Extension VS continuing decades of stalling (first proposed in 1996)
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-3#post-1168593
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-3#post-1168659
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-4#post-1390058
Since over the years, I've been Squatting "Doris South Extension" on this dead thread - and now you know why,... I'll continue to claim Squatter's Right!
www.toronto.ca
For Doris South Extension from north of Sheppard to Avondale Ave:
"February 2020 Update: The City is considering a two-phased implementation approach. See new information panels below and provide your feedback."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The City is considering a two-phased implementation approach for North York Centre Service Road south of Sheppard Avenue.
Phase 1 – Interim: Offset Intersection
Phase 1 – Offset intersection
Create an offset intersection by extending Tradewind Avenue up to Sheppard Avenue, and installing coordinated traffic signals at Doris Avenue and Tradewind Avenue.
Bonnington Place would be closed off in a cul-de-sac.
This was identified as Option C in the Environmental Assessment.
The proposed timing of construction: post-2022
Phase 2 – Future: Single Intersection
Phase 2 – Four leg intersection
Realignment of Doris Avenue to meet the northern extension of Tradewind Avenue, resulting in a more standard four-legged intersection at Sheppard Avenue
This is a hybrid of Option A and Option B identified in the Environmental Assessment.
Implementation will be dependent on property acquisition and detailed design.
Attend the Public Drop-in Event
View the information panels in print and discuss one-on-one with the project team.
Date: February 27, 2020
Drop-in: 6 to 8 p.m.
Location: North York Memorial Community Hall (5110 Yonge St.), Lower Level, directly below the North York Central Library.
Please provide your feedback by March 5, 2020.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: When I last checked a few months ago, 69 Glendora (southwest corner of Glendora & Tradewind) was still privately owned - City still needs to acquire (have developer buy & convey or City expropriate). Also, City needs to deal for land at northeast corner of Sheppard Ave East & Doris Ave - it's a private park with whatever remaining air-rights (density & height) already transfered to 88 Sheppard East Condo; thus, they can't build anything on that land now!
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-3#post-1168593
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-3#post-1168659
https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...d-east-dead-45m-14s.19463/page-4#post-1390058
Since over the years, I've been Squatting "Doris South Extension" on this dead thread - and now you know why,... I'll continue to claim Squatter's Right!
North York Centre: Doris Ave. Extension (South Service Road) - Bonnington Pl. & Tradewind Ave.
November 2020 Update: City staff will be presenting recommendations for this study to the Infrastructure & Environment Committee (IEC) at the December 1, 2020 meeting. A copy of the staff report is available under IEC agenda item IE 18.2. Interested members of the public can arrange to speak or...
www.toronto.ca
For Doris South Extension from north of Sheppard to Avondale Ave:
"February 2020 Update: The City is considering a two-phased implementation approach. See new information panels below and provide your feedback."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The City is considering a two-phased implementation approach for North York Centre Service Road south of Sheppard Avenue.
Phase 1 – Interim: Offset Intersection
Phase 1 – Offset intersection
Create an offset intersection by extending Tradewind Avenue up to Sheppard Avenue, and installing coordinated traffic signals at Doris Avenue and Tradewind Avenue.
Bonnington Place would be closed off in a cul-de-sac.
This was identified as Option C in the Environmental Assessment.
The proposed timing of construction: post-2022
Phase 2 – Future: Single Intersection
Phase 2 – Four leg intersection
Realignment of Doris Avenue to meet the northern extension of Tradewind Avenue, resulting in a more standard four-legged intersection at Sheppard Avenue
This is a hybrid of Option A and Option B identified in the Environmental Assessment.
Implementation will be dependent on property acquisition and detailed design.
Attend the Public Drop-in Event
View the information panels in print and discuss one-on-one with the project team.
Date: February 27, 2020
Drop-in: 6 to 8 p.m.
Location: North York Memorial Community Hall (5110 Yonge St.), Lower Level, directly below the North York Central Library.
Please provide your feedback by March 5, 2020.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: When I last checked a few months ago, 69 Glendora (southwest corner of Glendora & Tradewind) was still privately owned - City still needs to acquire (have developer buy & convey or City expropriate). Also, City needs to deal for land at northeast corner of Sheppard Ave East & Doris Ave - it's a private park with whatever remaining air-rights (density & height) already transfered to 88 Sheppard East Condo; thus, they can't build anything on that land now!
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
An update on Doris South Extension - that's been squatting on this thread,...
Time line of Doris South Extension:
Note: This 55 Sheppard East redevelopment proposal in 2013 forced City to stop stalling!
Pg 2: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/84a4-NYC_Service_Rd_slides_2020-02-07.pdf
In 2015 - For Doris-Sheppard intersection, CityStaff gave Community 4 designs to choose from! Why?
Pg 5: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/84a4-NYC_Service_Rd_slides_2020-02-07.pdf
But 2020 - CityStaff choose to do 2 phase implementation! Phase 1 is "interim" Option C Offset Intersection that had lowest ranking! Phase 2 "final" Option A Single Intersection will take decades and decades before it's ever built - if ever! In the meantime, we'll be stuck with a 4-signal phase offset intersection where all road users (drivers, cyclists and pedestrians) will have to wait a maximum of 3 red-lights before their green light to proceed.
Pg 16: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/98cd-pcu-NY-Service-Rd-panels-sml.pdf
City now expecting Doris South Extension with Phase 1 "interim" Offset Intersection to be completed in 2023-2024. City still needs to acquire property at northwest corner of Tradewind Ave & Glendora Ave.
Biggest issue was/is that northeast quadrant of Doris-Sheppard - City can't/won't expropriate it! It's Moorehead Park - a Private Owned Public Space (POPS) - technically, it's currently unbuildable land, all it's potential height & density was transferred to 88 Sheppard years ago,... and during that time City never negotiated for a strip of land here for Doris South Extension! Moorehead Park got CityPlanning and TransportationServices butting heads! CityPlanning wants to preserve MooreHead Park while TransportationServices wants to run Doris South Extension through it! Why? Well, it seems,... Geoff Kettel of North York Community Preservation Panel thinks the "mound of dirt" in the centre of Moorehead Park has historical/cultural/architectural significance,.... also submitted a nomination of Moorehead Park as a Significant Cultural Heritage Landscape to The Cultural Landscape Foundation (TCLF) inventory
Slide 14 https://www.slideshare.net/TorontoPCU/nyc-service-rdslides20150527e
See that snow covered "mound of dirt",... then you're looking at historic/cultural significance!
Time line of Doris South Extension:
Note: This 55 Sheppard East redevelopment proposal in 2013 forced City to stop stalling!
Pg 2: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/84a4-NYC_Service_Rd_slides_2020-02-07.pdf
In 2015 - For Doris-Sheppard intersection, CityStaff gave Community 4 designs to choose from! Why?
Pg 5: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/84a4-NYC_Service_Rd_slides_2020-02-07.pdf
But 2020 - CityStaff choose to do 2 phase implementation! Phase 1 is "interim" Option C Offset Intersection that had lowest ranking! Phase 2 "final" Option A Single Intersection will take decades and decades before it's ever built - if ever! In the meantime, we'll be stuck with a 4-signal phase offset intersection where all road users (drivers, cyclists and pedestrians) will have to wait a maximum of 3 red-lights before their green light to proceed.
Pg 16: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/98cd-pcu-NY-Service-Rd-panels-sml.pdf
City now expecting Doris South Extension with Phase 1 "interim" Offset Intersection to be completed in 2023-2024. City still needs to acquire property at northwest corner of Tradewind Ave & Glendora Ave.
Biggest issue was/is that northeast quadrant of Doris-Sheppard - City can't/won't expropriate it! It's Moorehead Park - a Private Owned Public Space (POPS) - technically, it's currently unbuildable land, all it's potential height & density was transferred to 88 Sheppard years ago,... and during that time City never negotiated for a strip of land here for Doris South Extension! Moorehead Park got CityPlanning and TransportationServices butting heads! CityPlanning wants to preserve MooreHead Park while TransportationServices wants to run Doris South Extension through it! Why? Well, it seems,... Geoff Kettel of North York Community Preservation Panel thinks the "mound of dirt" in the centre of Moorehead Park has historical/cultural/architectural significance,.... also submitted a nomination of Moorehead Park as a Significant Cultural Heritage Landscape to The Cultural Landscape Foundation (TCLF) inventory
Slide 14 https://www.slideshare.net/TorontoPCU/nyc-service-rdslides20150527e
See that snow covered "mound of dirt",... then you're looking at historic/cultural significance!
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Strange Advance
Active Member
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What's the plan for Doris south of Sheppard? Is it going to be linked to Avondale? There's already a fair amount of traffic going through there at rush hour.
Northern Light
Superstar
This is the future:
Report here:
Doris connects to Tradewind, which yes, connects to Avondale.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Huh? You think CityStaff care about traffic volume in local neighbourhoods???
With City's TransportationServices recommendation, CityCouncil just approved TransformYonge which will reduce Yonge Street from 6-lanes to 4-lanes with the intension of forcing more traffic onto Doris Ave and Beecroft Rd,... for the Doris South Extension - the links will be via Anndale Ave and Avondale Ave!
If you live in the Avondale Condominium Community,... where at peak times, it usually takes 30 minutes to drive from your parking spot to corner of Yonge & Avondale,... good luck!
While City has committed to build Doris South Extension and part of Beecroft North Extension first before TransformYonge,... there's no requirement that Doris and Beecroft be designed and capable of handling high traffic volume efficiently. IE: That problematic 4-signal-phase Doris-Sheppard Offset Intersection I've already mentioned. Plus, numerous land City still need for Beecroft Extension to be efficient.
Construction Phasing Strategy
• Phase 1 - Doris Ave Connection to Tradewind Ave Extension (2023-2024)
• Phase 2 - Beecroft Extension to at least Turnberry Court to connect to Cummer Ave
(2024-2026)
• Phase 3 – “Transform Yonge” (2026+)
Pg 16: https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2020/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-158594.pdf
Undead
Senior Member
Are there any plans to extend Doris and Beecroft to Steeles?