Toronto 50 Bloor Street West | 230.11m | 70s | Morguard Corporation | Pellow + Associates

I'm lost on one issue - why is this assumed to be an Oxford project? The site is owned by Morguard, Oxford owns 2 Bloor (north and east of 50 Bloor). If Oxford owned both sites they wouldn't be developeing them separately from one another.
 
I am surprised that Daily Mail crowns Shard as the tallest building in Europe. The Mercury Tower in Moscow is soon to top out at 332m. Even now, it is higher than Shard. Either they didn't do their homework, or have distorted view of Europe borders...

Dude, it's the Daily Fail. What do you expect from a 'newspaper' that's actually made up quotes for their articles?

On the original story, I completely agree with jn_12 that Toronto has had a terrible history of buildings that don't contribute to the vitality or essence of the city. The first floor and how it interacts with pedestrians is infinitely more important than the next 82 storeys.
 
Unlike Paris and Madrid, Toronto's central core is not predominately low and midrise. North American cities have totally different population distributions than European cities, and very tall skyscrapers are ubiquitous within the central cores of North America cities, of which we are one. Conflating the two contexts is disingenuous.
I'm not conflating the two contexts, I'm just giving examples of why the logic that's been popping up in this thread is faulty. Toronto's core may be mostly high rise, but that's no reason to dismiss opposition by saying "it's a city". Even in a high rise core there are areas where skyscrapers might not be appropriate or where their possible impacts have to be looked at.

Toronto is a modern city compared to your examples. You know the difference, so I'm not sure why you bothered to even point these examples out.
I see you missed the point.

Well that's in La Defense so it probably makes sense. Even so, you can bet it was evaluated pretty carefully. And there probably aren't people saying "Paris is a city. If you don't like skyscrapers move to Reims." :eek:
 
Anybody else think this is the beginning of the end of the current condo boom? The number of new proposals being announced on a weekly basis is mind-boggling.
 
St. Petersburg was very close to get its first supertall, the Okhta Centre (Gasprom Tower) the project that was scrapped due to strong local opposition:

gazpromcity10hd0.jpg


I am surprised that Daily Mail crowns Shard as the tallest building in Europe. The Mercury Tower in Moscow is soon to top out at 332m. Even now, it is higher than Shard. Either they didn't do their homework, or have distorted view of Europe borders...

Europeans do not consider Russia to be Europe, trust me ! :D
 
Let's stipulate that any form of the "if you don't like skyscrapers, move to the country" argument should be abandoned by all sides in the debate.

Granted that, however, most of us know full well that the urban "reach for the sky" impetus is an ancient one, going back to whatever reality lies behind the Tower of Babel story in the Book of Genesis. The equivalent of skyscrapers do lie at the center of old European cities like Paris... in the cathedrals. I leave to the reader any aesthetic comparison of structures built to the glory of God on the one hand and greed on the other. What can be said, however, is that the skyward reach of Notre Dame or the Duomo of Florence, approached much more closely to the technological limits of the day than any skyscraper in present day Toronto. (Madrid is a bit of a special case since Toledo was the primary see of Spain, The cathedral of Madrid is only a 19th century construction.) What is expressed in the towers of European structures is also found in ziggurats, minarets, domes and pagodas of other cultures. People do long for height.

That remains the case today. I imagine that few people visit "www.lowrisegeek.com!" The real question, most of us would probably agree, is managing the desire for height properly.

A first question is "what kind of city should Toronto be like?" I don't know Madrid but love Paris. Still, I don't think a North American city can actually resemble the city of light. Among other things, no one here would put up with the ruthless demolition of the old that made Paris the city it is today. Go seek medieval Paris and see what you can find! (Hint: visit La Musee de Cluny... a wonderful place to see.) I think many of our arteries, eg Eglinton Ave East, should be Europeanized, but that still won't create another Paris. I think Toronto needs to compare itself, like to like, primarily to other North American cities.

I know that I would hate to see Toronto continue to sprawl into another Los Angeles, swallowing the rich farmland that brought the city into existence, with strip malls and subdivisions on the fringes of, say, Richmond Hill. I think Toronto could most resemble another Lakeside city, namely Chicago, famed for its architecture, including supertall towers. (Though, for sure, I don't want to see anything like the south side of that city!) Increased density caused by towers downtown and Europeanizing some major arteries, would counteract the destructive tendency to urban sprawl.

One does not have to enthuse over every proposal of get rich quick developers to believe that the increased intensification of both the core and its northern extension along Bay and Yonge to the Yorkdale area is a good and humane development. Permitting towers, which even at 30-40 storeys alter the streetscape greatly, but artificially limiting their height to something markedly less than presently exists, seems to me utterly foolish. So, city planners and developers, play close attention to the way the towers meet the street, but also how they look up high. Let them grow high and, I hope magnificent.

I wonder if this one will actually get built, late in the present boom as it may well be. But, if it does get built, provided it is carefully designed, count me as a fan.
 
Anybody else think this is the beginning of the end of the current condo boom? The number of new proposals being announced on a weekly basis is mind-boggling.

There is no boom. This is just Toronto building up, because it can't go outwards anymore, and people want to live in the city.
 
Never suggested that these buildings need have any of those establishments. I'd be fine with a 1-star burrito joint or a 7/11 really. But, the truth is that what happens at street level should be the most important aspect as that's the part that we interact with and will interact with for decades to come. Contributing to the vibrancy of the street level is integral in maintaining a great urban environment, and there's no excuse for not addressing that whether the building is 1-storey or 100. I'd also suggest that focusing on the street-level is far more important in the downtown core compared to Etobicoke where buildings are setback farther from the road and there is far less pedestrian traffic.

Simply put, as a Planner I'd argue it's good urban planning to address the street level first and foremost.

The building’s presence at street level is definitely important, but it's not the only part of a tall building that can benefit the city. The other 80+ storeys of people living downtown rather than in less dense, sprawling neighbourhoods benefits the city as well in encouraging a way of life that is less automobile dependent, more spatially efficient, etc. I'd like to see a good street level presence, but it's not as though an 80+ storey building is meritless if its street level is perfunctory.
 
The building’s presence at street level is definitely important, but it's not the only part of a tall building that can benefit the city. The other 80+ storeys of people living downtown rather than in less dense, sprawling neighbourhoods benefits the city as well in encouraging a way of life that is less automobile dependent, more spatially efficient, etc. I'd like to see a good street level presence, but it's not as though an 80+ storey building is meritless if its street level is perfunctory.

Oh I agree that increasing density and promoting urban living is incredibly important. My point is just that once a building is tall, how many storeys it is, and how it looks in the skyline doesn't matter much to me. I just don't get the "Oh my god it could be a super-tall!!" crowd and their obsession with metres and storeys and feel that there are far more important and far more impactful issues that don't get adequately addressed in many of these threads.
 
There is no boom. This is just Toronto building up, because it can't go outwards anymore, and people want to live in the city.

That's a dangerous sentiment to hold.

Yes, the underlying trend is for Toronto to (a) grow, and (b) densify, and so the long-term trend line for a variety of urban development measures will be one of growth. But those trend lines will inevitably be jagged, with steep climbs, gentler climbs, and sometimes the occasional drop before picking up again.

In an environment where a lot of the growth is financed by investors, both domestic and international, who are putting money into condos insofar as they're confident it will produce a better return on investment than alternative places to stick their capital -- and let's be honest here, whether you're an optimist or a pessimist on the direction the real estate market is headed, we know that's the case in Toronto right now -- there will always be distortion of trends relative to the "natural" forces that push expansion, like population growth or a desire for the public to choose an urban residence over an alternative.

Essentially by definition, the biggest and most grandiose real estate projects in a particular market will appear right before it overheats and goes into correction. That correction can be anything from a hard drop to a barely-noticeable levelling-off, but a look at history both in Toronto and elsewhere shows that these things happen.

Three years ago, people might have said that boundary-breaking projects like Aura, Trump and Four Seasons meant this wave of development had hit its zenith and the correction would come. That doesn't seem to have happened. Maybe 83 storeys at 50 Bay means we've finally overstretched. Maybe this one's fine, but the 115 storey tower revealed three more years down the road will finally be a step too far. Maybe that'll be fine, but the 150 storey 7-star hotel on an artificial island a few years afterwards will do it. If anyone were able to read these trends perfectly they could become a very wealthy person.
 
I'd love to see a big name architect tied to this project, might make the approval process a little quicker... Personally I'd love to see a Foster tower in the city, but that's certainly a longshot. There's also huge potential for a great observation deck in this thing.
 
These days, "observation decks" make most sense as a bonus benefit to a restaurant/bar function (sort of like at Manulife across the way--or for that matter, at the Park Plaza/Hyatt down the street).

Come to think of it, given that the Imperial Oil Building used to have an observation deck back in the 50s/60s, it'd be terrific if its current condo-ization manages to have some kind of "venue" up in the penthouse zone...
 
These days, "observation decks" make most sense as a bonus benefit to a restaurant/bar function (sort of like at Manulife across the way--or for that matter, at the Park Plaza/Hyatt down the street).

Don't forget brothels! Toronto could have the first brothel on top of a supertall tower. Some members here would be sent into a tizzy.
 
An observation deck up here could be something like Top of the Rock versus the CN Tower being the ESB (more of a distance but whatever).

Or a John Hancock vs. Sears Tower thing.


For some reason I thought there was at some point some sort of observation on the top of Manulife Centre?
 

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