1233 Queen East | ?m | 8s

[subwayboy]

From what's been posted earlier, they are still test driving for more basic issues ... like the side of the train hitting the side of the tunnels ... which makes me wonder if there is a big problem with the centre of gravity on these new units ... must be top heavy from those video screens

lol, excellent comment!

Maybe they're top heavy with all the heavy duty content they're running

 

[Tulse]

even minor shifts make a huge difference when the dynamic envelope is as tight as it is.

This may be a naive question, but why are the tolerances so tight? That is, why were the tunnels made so that there are spots with marginal clearances? I can understand that the tolerances at the platforms need to be close for public safety, but those are straight shots, and can be approached at slower speed -- why are there any tight spots it the tunnels themselves? Doesn't that greatly limit options? Or have the cars simply gotten bigger over the years, and the tunnels had lots of clearance for the original models?

 

[W. K. Lis]

This may be a naive question, but why are the tolerances so tight? That is, why were the tunnels made so that there are spots with marginal clearances? I can understand that the tolerances at the platforms need to be close for public safety, but those are straight shots, and can be approached at slower speed -- why are there any tight spots it the tunnels themselves? Doesn't that greatly limit options? Or have the cars simply gotten bigger over the years, and the tunnels had lots of clearance for the original models?

The original Gloucester cars were 57 feet long. Compare with the T1's at 74' 5-5/8''. The Yonge line from Eglinton to Union was designed for the Gloucester in mind. When the University came, it was designed for a longer car and the adjustments were made. Now with the articulated trains, more adjustments may have to be made to the tunnels, if they can't adjust the trains themselves.

 

[CDL.TO]

Because the Bathurst hill, and the portals to underground loops, are far steeper than off-the-shelf LRT vehicles can handle particularly if one vehicle has to push a disabled one bnack to the yard. This is not a hypothetical problem; there is a reason why they don't run the articulated streetcars on Spadina or St Clair. If the latter, even getting into service can get a bit sketchy.

The ramps are non-standard because most LRT vehicles load at platforms, or at least raised curbs of some sort. The need for accessible boarding from street level is definitely not standard, and there is not always space for on-street or Ronces style platforms.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[alexthettcguy]

the reason alrv's aren't used on spadina is because of the tailswing. when exiting union station the operator can't see the tailend and whether it has clipped anybody on the platform. they are allowed if you have a spotter with you, i.e. a supervisor. i have seen one go during the exhibition to union(509). the other reason is that if the brakes seized on an alrv, to manually crank them loose requires a long pole that doesn't fit in the tunnels

 

[smallspy]

I wonder if the accomodation for the articulation has increased "swing" enough to make fitting through the tunnels a bit sketchy. The technical drawings do indicate the nose end overhangs quite a bit further on the Rockets than the older cars, 8 inches or so. Although that doesn't sound like much when you're within a tight dynamic envelope that can make a huge difference. Especially if the suspension on the new cars is "softer" and the cars move more within their envelope. Given the tight curves in our system, I'm still not convinced articulated cars were the best idea.

First off, the trainsets are not articulated. They are made of 6 individual cars that are drawbarred together. They do not share common structural elements as an articulated trainset - such as an ALRV, or the upcoming legacy fleet LRVs - does.

Yes, the end cars are a bit longer than has traditionally been the case. They ends are also curved and tapered however, and do fit into the tunnel engineering envelope and the train's dynamic envelope.

As for the suspension being "softer", that should not have been an issue, as the dynamic envelope takes that into account. I have not heard of any issues with the train striking any wayside equipment on tests (save for an early test at Yorkdale), so I suspect that they have solved any issues with the dynamic envelope that had occurred.

the reason alrv's aren't used on spadina is because of the tailswing. when exiting union station the operator can't see the tailend and whether it has clipped anybody on the platform. they are allowed if you have a spotter with you, i.e. a supervisor. i have seen one go during the exhibition to union(509). the other reason is that if the brakes seized on an alrv, to manually crank them loose requires a long pole that doesn't fit in the tunnels

Both of those are good reasons why they don't use ALRVs on Spadina or Harbourfront, but you missed the single most important reason - a single ALRV can not push a disabled ALRV up the grade west of Bay St. And if an A can't do it, a C certainly can't.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Agram]

Really? I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. It is the TTC

The trains are not in TTC possession to begin with, there are still major issues with them. Bombardier own engineers are at a loss as what is going on. The train still has not gone over 15 Km/h, there are propulsion issues and numerous undercarriage parts falling off. I have said it from the start these trains are nothing but headaches. They are too finicky and require too much fine tuning. The 2nd train that arrived was covered in rust........I say cancel the contract.....oooops did I say that aloud lol

So folks have patience and lets wait and see till BOMBARDIER sorts this mess out.

 

[nfitz]

Isn't this the kind of issues that they should have shaken out at the Millhaven test track, before the trains ever arrived in Toronto?

I'm not surprised there are various issues - this is typical with new equipment. But surely they would have had that equipment operating at full speed at Millhaven

 

[Dan416]

Aren't these trains based on an existing train anyway? How many problems could there possibly be?

 

[Electrify]

Really? I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. It is the TTC

The trains are not in TTC possession to begin with, there are still major issues with them. Bombardier own engineers are at a loss as what is going on. The train still has not gone over 15 Km/h, there are propulsion issues and numerous undercarriage parts falling off. I have said it from the start these trains are nothing but headaches. They are too finicky and require too much fine tuning. The 2nd train that arrived was covered in rust........I say cancel the contract.....oooops did I say that aloud lol

So folks have patience and lets wait and see till BOMBARDIER sorts this mess out.

Link?

 

[Agram]

Aren't these trains based on an existing train anyway? How many problems could there possibly be?

Just in height and length, the rest is a completely new design.

Electrify what link are you asking for?

 

[TTC12]

Agram- I believe Electrify is asking for a link in which you are getting all this infomation. Obviously not every source has to come from the internet, it has to go through people before it end up on the internet.


So I was wondering if anyone has an idea why the TR has controller that tilts forwards and backwards instead of just a sliding mechanism like the T1s? It seems to me that the tilting controller would be more difficult to use.

 

[Electrify]

Well that settles it, if I read it on the internet from some guy with nothing backing him up, it MUST be true!

 

[nfitz]

Well that settles it, if I read it on the internet from some guy with nothing backing him up, it MUST be true!

Read through the thread ... months after the fact much, if not all, of what he has said has born fruit.

 

[fiendishlibrarian]

I believe Agram has stated on a couple of occasions that he works for the TTC. Electrify is free to publicly call him a liar if he so wishes.

And as for a lack of links, that's more a testament to the ability of Bombardier to keep bad news under wraps more than anything else.