JasonParis
Moderator
If EVERYONE in Toronto refused to file their income taxes I wonder if we'd see some movement on these issues.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Darkstar:
I don't think you even need everyone - just 1/3 of the citizens not filing it, or guking up the CRA system would get enough attention.
One will need some group dynamics theorists to design it to the full impact - electronic media could come in very handily.
AoD
I don't think you even need everyone - just 1/3 of the citizens not filing it, or guking up the CRA system would get enough attention.
One will need some group dynamics theorists to design it to the full impact - electronic media could come in very handily.
AoD
JasonParis
Moderator
Well "everyone" should be the goal, but yah, realistically even 10% of people refusing would have politicians shaking. It would be too many to take legal action against, yet enough to make a dent in their coffers. Moreover, they'd also know that for everyone that refused there's likely five or six more in agreement.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Darkstar:
There are inherit risks with these strategies, since you're asking people to disregard and violate the law - and once that's done with its' intended effect, it could be done again for every little cause - which isn't necessarily something one wanted to encourage.
Perhaps someone should work out the math for an "alternate tax schedule", where the taxes for each bracket reflects the amount spent on Toronto only - and get people to pay that amount. I think that could prove even more interesting.
AoD
There are inherit risks with these strategies, since you're asking people to disregard and violate the law - and once that's done with its' intended effect, it could be done again for every little cause - which isn't necessarily something one wanted to encourage.
Perhaps someone should work out the math for an "alternate tax schedule", where the taxes for each bracket reflects the amount spent on Toronto only - and get people to pay that amount. I think that could prove even more interesting.
AoD
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
I think the last thing you need are intellectuals and PR types and such trying to design an engineer a movement. If anything they should be kept away as best as possible. It is not that difficult to understand how to develop a movement, like a general strike. You develop a reason for why it should be done, lets say to protest unfair taxation of Toronto citizens by the provincial and federal governments, you engage the public, get articles published in newspaper, hold speeches and teach-ins and other public actions. And you keep working and encouraging discourse so that people will understand what is being done, and why, and want to join in a general strike (or whatever action is too take place). And if people do not become interested then there is a chance that they either don't believe that is worthwhile to take strong measures or the movement is just not working hard enough (which is often part of the reason movements never get too far).
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
AS:
I didn't say engineer these things "out in the open"
Just strategically fan the flames a little. There are so many fulcrums that one can push along the way to maximize the effect.
AoD
I didn't say engineer these things "out in the open"
Just strategically fan the flames a little. There are so many fulcrums that one can push along the way to maximize the effect.AoD
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
I didn't say engineer these things "out in the open"
Fair enough. Though without a message and a reason that is clear, logical, and is something that people will find important in the first place the best developed strategies are basically going to be meaningless.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
AS:
I am not sure if logical, reasonable is ultimately an effective tool - mass movements ultimately solicit powerful emotions and group identities - I think that's what's been lacking, and not necessarily knowledge of the plight. People just don't care enough.
AoD
I am not sure if logical, reasonable is ultimately an effective tool - mass movements ultimately solicit powerful emotions and group identities - I think that's what's been lacking, and not necessarily knowledge of the plight. People just don't care enough.
AoD
adma
Superstar
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
AnarchoSocialist
Active Member
People don't care because how often are they given a reason to care about equalization and taxation and the political nonesense of whatever level of government is being targeted today? Most people are going to be concerned only when something directly affects them. That is why the threat of cancelling transit services elicited such a strong reaction, because that directly affected citizens in a very real way. But when you start to getting into debates about equalization and downloading of services and of who has what taxing powers, not many people are going to care because it usually does not have any sort of direct impact on their lives. Not too say that there are not real connections and that people would not benefit from developing a movement to deal with these problems. But unless you can clearly show people why its a problem, and how it affects their lives in real ways, which is rarely done right now, if ever, then people are not going to care.
wyliepoon
Senior Member
A large scale protest gathering or a march would seem more appropriate. University Avenue, Dundas Square, Nathan Phillips Square or Downsview Park could serve as a venue.
All we need is somebody to make the "I have a dream..." speech for Toronto's Million Man March.
All we need is somebody to make the "I have a dream..." speech for Toronto's Million Man March.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
But keep in mind, your opponent is more than likely to force the debate into that arcane (as we have seen many times before), and the message gets lost. Something more primal that appeals to the sense of injustice might prove more useful.
AoD
Actually cutting transit is the perfect way to do this. Transit users and non transit users will immediately feel the hit and will then start to make noise. Just make sure they know why this is happening. And the left and right on city council should work together on this issue.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
Or the city simply ceases to operate any programming or services that are otherwise the responsibility of the provincial government. If the province is sincere about uploading, then it should get a move on. Maybe some motivation is in order.
V
vTO
Guest
General Strike in TO
I think that we have to put this into a short but to the point idea that everyone can understand...
Unfair taxation of Toronto by the Provs/Feds is bankrupting US and shutting down OUR services.
A simple and straightforward message will work as soon as something like the TTC is cut. That's the catalyst for a strike. I really don't think one march will do any good except for give everyone some exercise. A short period of sacrifice by all will fix this inequity for years to come and it will help us to build Transit, EMS, Cultural Centres, Tourism and attract the creative minds that we need to keep Toronto moving ahead.
In the end we only want 2 things... 1 cent of the GST and $600m uploaded back to the Province. (Actually uploading or more equitable formula would also work).
I think that we have to put this into a short but to the point idea that everyone can understand...
Unfair taxation of Toronto by the Provs/Feds is bankrupting US and shutting down OUR services.
A simple and straightforward message will work as soon as something like the TTC is cut. That's the catalyst for a strike. I really don't think one march will do any good except for give everyone some exercise. A short period of sacrifice by all will fix this inequity for years to come and it will help us to build Transit, EMS, Cultural Centres, Tourism and attract the creative minds that we need to keep Toronto moving ahead.
In the end we only want 2 things... 1 cent of the GST and $600m uploaded back to the Province. (Actually uploading or more equitable formula would also work).