Subway To Mississauga: Routing

[Tdot_one]

This presumes that most Missisaugans work downtown, which is false. More people come into Mississauga each day than leave, so a new subway like this could take just as many people out of Toronto daily if suitable stations and connections are implemented. A direct run to Union Station would benefit only those who do work downtown, but be of no help to the even larger number of people who live or work along this route, or can use this line to access other points with more ease and/or speed.

Most Torontonians would be able to get to Mississauga quicker by GO than the subway. The same goes for reverse to much of Toronto. Subways are for more local service.

Dundas between Confederation and Mattawa could EASILY be intensified considering the empty pockets and/or low grade strip malls that clutter this strip at the moment. With the height of buildings going up elsewhere, I could picture another 'strip' like NYCC, if a subway was there to support it - potentially far more residential than what will be built along Sheppard, with a whole lot more retail and industry already in place.

It could be done due to the area's non-residential nature. The same could be done along the Spadina and Yonge extension as well. Political backing would be required, though.

 

[Dan416]

Aadmit it, you just have a subway fetish you're trying to itch. And even you would use the GO train over the slower subway. Just admit it.

I've mentioned in many threads, many times that I take GO, not MT/TTC. I've never hidden that, so I don't understand your prodding to "admit it".

GO is faster for long distances, yes, of course, it's a regional network. Subways are LOCAL. That's why we need both. I don't see how hard this is to understand.

 

[CDL.TO]

GO is faster for long distances, yes, of course, it's a regional network. Subways are LOCAL. That's why we need both. I don't see how hard this is to understand.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why GO can't serve both local and regional trips. Just like how regional/suburban rail serves both levels (including facilitating local trips within suburban locations) in London, Paris, Berlin, Tokyo, Chicago, Milan, Munich, Vienna, Madrid, Copenhagen, Sydney, Melbourne, and many other cities.

I also don't understand why some people would jump with joy if someone proposed adding express tracks to the University and Bloor subway lines, so that trains could run express from downtown to Kipling, then make local stops within Mississauga. But that person would then complain when the exact same service was proposed, only utilizing an existing parallel rail corridor rather then expensively tunneling along the current corridor.

Yes, I admit that I'm finding it hard to understand why there's something special about Toronto that makes us incapable of doing what those other cities have done, and why people could possibly prefer that we instead extend an already crowded subway line, providing a service which is clearly slower, less comfortable, and more crowded than the alternative.

Yup. It's true. I am very perplexed.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Sometimes people propose Bloor extensions along Dundas that terminate at Cooksville or so and stop at Dixie, Cawthra, maybe one or two more. These alignments are always hilarious...sometimes the only real difference between the GO line and the subway in terms of regional trips and serving Mississauga is that the subway would stop at Cawthra. The subway hits the GO line at Dundas West, again at Kipling, and it'd hit it again at Dixie, and again at Cooksville. Fine, the Cawthra-Christie crowd might not be too happy, but for actual people, the GO line would be fantastic for medium-distance trips.

If there was something - anything - between Hurontario and Kipling, other than a mall that doesn't seem to really even want the extension, the subway might go farther. It probably will eventually...all it needs is policitians or a few powerful people to champion it, which it doesn't have at the moment. Maybe, in time, enough other transit improvements will happen that no one will care about extending the Bloor line.

 

[CDL.TO]

By all means, build a suburban rail stop at Cawthra. It's further from Dixie Station than Markham station is from Centennial station, Markham station is from Mount Joy station, or Newmarket station is from East Gwillimbury‎ station.
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[Dan416]

If there was something - anything - between Hurontario and Kipling, other than a mall that doesn't seem to really even want the extension, the subway might go farther. It probably will eventually...all it needs is policitians or a few powerful people to champion it, which it doesn't have at the moment. Maybe, in time, enough other transit improvements will happen that no one will care about extending the Bloor line.

Because clearly the people and businesses between Hurontario and Kipling don't count.

And show me one person from Square One who doesn't want the extension, please.

 

[Tdot_one]

Because clearly the people and businesses between Hurontario and Kipling don't count.

And show me one person from Square One who doesn't want the extension, please.

What's around Kipling station? Are there any major employment or population centers around the area? Will there be support for intense high density zoning around these districts ala the Spadina/ Yonge extension?

 

[Dan416]

What's around Kipling station? Are there any major employment or population centers around the area? Will there be support for intense high density zoning around these districts ala the Spadina/ Yonge extension?

What's there now is already higher density than what exists at VCC, so that's a moot point. If there was a subway in the works, of course the zoning would change.

 

[kettal]

Because clearly the people and businesses between Hurontario and Kipling don't count.

And show me one person from Square One who doesn't want the extension, please.

The "people and businesses" between hurontario and Kipling are best served by lrt or brt. There certainly is not enough demand in that small corridor to justify a whole subway. And of those square one types, very very few of them will use the subway when the high frequency go train is there. There is a difference between wanting and actually using.

 

[Tdot_one]

What's there now is already higher density than what exists at VCC, so that's a moot point. If there was a subway in the works, of course the zoning would change.

How about Jane-Finch and York University? I don't see why you're isolating VCC itself. There would be no extension if those trip generators along with the underrated source at the 407 transitway weren't present. A mere 0.9km (from 407) or 2.5 km (from Steeles) isn't much.

 

[Dan416]

The "people and businesses" between hurontario and Kipling are best served by lrt or brt. There certainly is not enough demand in that small corridor to justify a whole subway. And of those square one types, very very few of them will use the subway when the high frequency go train is there. There is a difference between wanting and actually using.

I'm sorry but just because you say there's no demand doesn't make it true. There's tons of latent demand for transit in the region. If there isn't demand in Mississauga, there's definitely no demand in any of York Region (but which happens to be getting not one but TWO subway extensions).

People will take what gets them where they want to go. You're advocating putting all our eggs in the GO basket. GO isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. GO can't fulfill all riders demand. Not everyone is going to Union.

If there's a difference between "wanting" and "actually using", York Region should in no way shape or form have any subway extensions whatsoever.

 

[kettal]

You can stop with the "going to union" strawman. The GO train connects at Kipling Station, meaning anyone heading anywhere east of Kipling is better off using the GO train.

There will probably be a stop built at Bloor-Dundas too, making it even more convenient.

I have no doubt that lots of people "want" a subway, but very few will "use" it when a faster alternative exists.

And do you really have to make this into a penis measuring contest with York Region? Does the Richmond Hill GO train connect with the Yonge Subway in North York? Do you see what the difference is??

 

[Fresh Start]

I have no doubt that lots of people "want" a subway, but very few will "use" it when a faster alternative exists.

And do you really have to make this into a penis measuring contest with York Region? Does the Richmond Hill GO train connect with the Yonge Subway in North York? Do you see what the difference is??

The GO train (and potentially REX rail services) there however will directly connect to the subway at Leslie-Sheppard, and backtrack from that point to NYCC is only five minutes. The comparison to Missisauga/MCC then is only valid were the Cooksville GO Stn to be intercepted by an underground, excusive, traffic-free RT ROW that could interconnect the two points.

Of course, York Region has it way better than a 6 km discrepancy of distances after taking into account express buses into Finch and the potential of DMUs alongside the York and Bala Subs which could seamlessly feed RT trains directly into the subway tunnel creating a cross-platform interchange with subway cars at a modest Steeles only extension. This plan of action would hence serve to distribute some of the loads away from the Yonge corridor as not to over-congest it but dually provide a one-seat rapid ride to the Yonge subway for those whom really need it which instead of routing through low-density Thornhill, the RT line would have intermediaries at John-Bayview (malls, condos, civic services, transit hub) and Glen Cameron, which via inclined escalator is a short distance south of Clark/Yonge. See? Not everything requires a $5-6 billion dollar subway extension for its solution. So in my eyes, the RHC subway fanboys are just as guilty of proposing something extravagant and unwarranted that only a fraction of the expected population at RHC truly needs (or may actually use from day-to-day) when the GO corridor would also be so much faster for downtown-bound trips, not stopping 20 time-comsuming times en route and not depriving corridors elsewhere that truly need higher-order from receiving it.

 

[doady]

If the subway extension followed Dundas St, completely replacing the buses on Dundas East and did not serve Square One, then really there would be no arguement. The Milton GO Train will never be a true alternative to a true Dundas subway or LRT that realises the immense redevelopment potential of the entire Dundas East corridor. But proponents of subway extension in Mississauga don't want a Dundas subway line. Instead, they want a redundant and pointless direct subway extension to Square One. Too bad.

 

[kettal]

The GO train (and potentially REX rail services) there however will directly connect to the subway at Leslie-Sheppard, and backtrack from that point to NYCC is only five minutes. The comparison to Missisauga/MCC then is only valid were the Cooksville GO Stn to be intercepted by an underground, excusive, traffic-free RT ROW that could interconnect the two points.

Langstaff to Oriole is scheduled by GO as a 9 minute ride, Leslie to Sheppard-Yonge is an 8 minute ride. So 17 minutes, if you get to the subway platform at exactly the right time. It's an option, but does not offer a speed advantage.