Southcore Financial Ctr: PricewaterhouseCoopers Tower (18 York St, bcIMC, 26s, KPMB)

[Parkdalian]

Not to be too off topic, but folks, let's remember this: at the turn of the 20th century, Chicago had a million people and was the U.S.'s second-largest city. At the same time, Toronto had 100,000 people and was smaller than Montreal.

Toronto is now as large as Chicago, and could potentially become larger than it.

Chicago lives its history; Toronto is making its history.

 

[Art Vandelay]

There have been huge investments from both Queen's Park and Ottawa. What is really quite remarkable is the city succeeds despite the idiots at City Hall. Barbara Hall, Mel Lastman, David Miller...where to begin.

 

[yyzhyd]

There have been huge investments from both Queen's Park and Ottawa. What is really quite remarkable is the city succeeds despite the idiots at City Hall. Barbara Hall, Mel Lastman, David Miller...where to begin.

Not huge, additionally the investments have been inconsistent over the years and not at the levels that the city needs.
The idiots are at every level from city council to the PMO.

 

[taal]

There have been huge investments from both Queen's Park and Ottawa. What is really quite remarkable is the city succeeds despite the idiots at City Hall. Barbara Hall, Mel Lastman, David Miller...where to begin.

You clearly know nothing about the amount of subsidies / funding US cities get from their federal government.

It's on a completely level then here in Canada.

That's not to say other Canadian cities are better off ... though some would argue they are ... most of us are stuck in similar situations.

 

[UrbanAffair]

Not to be too off topic, but folks, let's remember this: at the turn of the 20th century, Chicago had a million people and was the U.S.'s second-largest city. At the same time, Toronto had 100,000 people and was smaller than Montreal.

Toronto is now as large as Chicago, and could potentially become larger than it.

Chicago lives its history; Toronto is making its history.

Not really, Chicago is still substantially larger than Toronto. In fact it has at least 3-5 million more people in the greater chicago area depending on how you measure it. I believe Toronto as a whole is growing faster however, that is including the burbs.

 

[yyzhyd]

Not really, Chicago is still substantially larger than Toronto. In fact it has at least 3-5 million more people in the greater chicago area depending on how you measure it. I believe Toronto as a whole is growing faster however, that is including the burbs.

Parkdalian referred to City not metro...

City of Chicago population is approx. 2.8 Million based on the 2008 US Census results.
City of Toronto population is approx. 2.5 Million based on the 2006 Canada Census results.

However you're correct when referring to the comparison between the area defined as "Chicagoland" vs. "GTA"...
Chicagoland Metro population is approx. 9.8 Million based on the 2008 US Census results.
Greater Toronto Area Metro population is approx. 5.6 Million based on the 2006 Canada Census results.

Ok now back to 18 york... any new pics?!

 

[christof53]

You should really compare the area size, however.

"Chicagoland" - 28 116.9 km2
GTA - 5 901 km2

"Chicagoland" Density - 348/km2
GTA Density - 866.4/km2

"Chicagoland" - 0
GTA - 1

 

[maestro]

Social issues aside, when I think of Chicago I think of a city realizing potential but when I think of Toronto I think of a city wasting it... at least so far. I do feel very happy about some of the changes happening in the city recently, that it is getting a little of its early post-war spirit back. Lets hope!

You don't feel entire pre-war neighbourhoods of abandoned greystones and empty lots as squandered potential? Compare what Chicago has done to what Toronto has done in the past ten years and I don't see how anyone with a level head would place one ahead of the other. A few star projects like Aqua doesn't make up for the dozens of BSNs downtown Toronto has been fortunate enough to avoid for the most part.

 

[Parkdalian]

Parkdalian referred to City not metro...

City of Chicago population is approx. 2.8 Million based on the 2008 US Census results.
City of Toronto population is approx. 2.5 Million based on the 2006 Canada Census results.

However you're correct when referring to the comparison between the area defined as "Chicagoland" vs. "GTA"...
Chicagoland Metro population is approx. 9.8 Million based on the 2008 US Census results.
Greater Toronto Area Metro population is approx. 5.6 Million based on the 2006 Canada Census results.

Ok now back to 18 york... any new pics?!

Yeah, thanks!

I meant city. But even if you count Metro, you could include all of the Golden Horseshoe in Toronto's, which would bump it up to about 8 million (Chicagoland extends into three states, after all). But that's not really the point.

The point is that Chicago's "big city" built form was largely in place by the beginning of the 20th century. There have been a lot of impressive additions since then, but they are just adding to and enhancing what was already there.

Toronto's built form was largely residential and low-rise until the sixties (suitable for a small city), and now a completely different built form is developing, and being overlaid on that one. Although we sometimes feel an urge to compare them now because they are of similar size, we can't really compare Chicago to Toronto in terms of built form due to their very different histories.

Returning to 18 York and the surrounding area - it's unlikely that we'll have anything as impressive as Chicago's wall of skyscrapers along the shoreline, but that's totally not Toronto's thing. Toronto is all about mixing the spectacular with the livable and it creates its own unique aesthetic feel. Let's not harsh on "Toronto" for short-sighted planning when some of that judgement is based upon our contemporary planning philosophy simply being different than Chicago's was in the 19th century.

 

[Solaris]

February 20 2010 update

18 York's rising quickly ~

 

[Hipster Duck]

Not to be too off topic, but folks, let's remember this: at the turn of the 20th century, Chicago had a million people and was the U.S.'s second-largest city. At the same time, Toronto had 100,000 people and was smaller than Montreal.

Toronto is now as large as Chicago, and could potentially become larger than it.

Chicago lives its history; Toronto is making its history.

Sorry to bring this back to Chicago, but that last quote is not entirely true. If I stand in Millennium Park and gaze upon the new skyscrapers and Renzo Piano's terrific addition to the Art Institute, or when I walk through Wicker Park or Ukrainian Village where every third house is a striking example of recent modernist infill, I don't get a feeling that Chicago is a city that has finished writing its book on greatness. At the same time, you don't have to travel far from downtown Toronto to find neighbourhoods that haven't changed in a decade.

 

[milanista]

You don't feel entire pre-war neighbourhoods of abandoned greystones and empty lots as squandered potential? Compare what Chicago has done to what Toronto has done in the past ten years and I don't see how anyone with a level head would place one ahead of the other. A few star projects like Aqua doesn't make up for the dozens of BSNs downtown Toronto has been fortunate enough to avoid for the most part.

I dislike comparing Toronto to other cities as much as the next guy because I like to think as Toronto as neither like Chicago or New York or wherever but as its own unique thing but I totally agree with you.
Chicago can polish up Michigan Avenue, Wacker and Millennium Park as much as they like but that doesn't make up for the mess that is the south-side that almost resembles Detroit for a couple stretches. 100% of Toronto is liveable, and you simply cannot say the same for Chicago. That alone makes me think we're winning at least one race.

 

[Yoshimura]

New view:

 

[whatever]

Nice shot. It's already making it look less wasteland-y.

 

[steveve]

Very cool new view!... its too bad Shangri-la won't make it on time though... It would have been the center of attention in this view!

18 York, then Ice Condos will dominate your view!