Southcore Financial Ctr: PricewaterhouseCoopers Tower (18 York St, bcIMC, 26s, KPMB)

AlvinofDiaspar said:
Nebakenezer:

PS: That's not to mention the scheme which will see the Union Station turned into a large mall either.
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Thats news to me... it's a start at least :p

But nonetheless, the thing about shopping is, when there's more shops in a concentrated area, it creates a 'larger gravity' for shoppers to come there. Can never be enough retail really, especially in such an urbanized area such as the downtown core. If you look at Vegas and Dubai, people go there specifically to shop. Look at Manhattan, endless shops, Oxford street in London same thing, Melrose and Rodeo in LA, Same thing. South Beach Miami, Kowloon in Hong Kong. Melbourne and Sydney have more shops. Toronto is behind all of these places. I think Vancouver has more retail as well.

Anyways, just my point of view, nobody has to agree.
 
Nebakaneezer, your point is not made stronger by making stuff up. A few rebuttals:

- You state a range of cities that "have more shops" than Toronto - so find proof for this. Given that it's hard enough to define what is "Vancouver" or "Sydney" in comparable terms to "Toronto", finding the retail space in those would be impossible. You are making stuff up.

- Shops do not equal malls. Malls are private enclosed

- Given that the Manulife Centre is almost 30 years old, I fail to see how Toronto is "short sited". In fact, if you look at a site like Fairview Mall, which is essentially a big shopping mall surrounded (but not topped by) apartment towers, Toronto has been in essence building the kinds of complexes you long for for fifty years.

- Given that in Don Mills we have a sterile, indoor mall being replaced with an experimental, outdoor-walkway shopping district, I actually think it could be argued that Toronto is ahead of the ball on this.

- Finally, do yourself a favour and pick up a paper now and then. Approvingly quoting Dubai and Las Vegas as "places to shop" in April 2009 is just a little bit hilarious, given how many cancelled projects those two locations are wracking up. Have you not seen even one of the articles where people in Dubai are leaving behind all the crap they spent time in malls shopping for, just to get out? How many towers and projects have been cancelled in Las Vegas?

Having said all that, I think the idea of residential buildings atop shopping malls (while only being a twist on what Toronto has done for many years) might have some merit in some locations in the city.
 
Nebakenezer said:
Thats news to me... it's a start at least :p

But nonetheless, the thing about shopping is, when there's more shops in a concentrated area, it creates a 'larger gravity' for shoppers to come there. Can never be enough retail really, especially in such an urbanized area such as the downtown core. If you look at Vegas and Dubai, people go there specifically to shop. Look at Manhattan, endless shops, Oxford street in London same thing, Melrose and Rodeo in LA, Same thing. South Beach Miami, Kowloon in Hong Kong. Melbourne and Sydney have more shops. Toronto is behind all of these places. I think Vancouver has more retail as well.

Anyways, just my point of view, nobody has to agree.
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Vegas as a shopping destination?? The have the Fashion Mall and that is about it. There is relatively little retail along the main drag, aside from some theme indoor shopping in some casino's.

Oxford street is certainly a shopping destination. Absolutely jammed with people. I guess our equivalent would be Yonge St, a bit of a strech though.

If you are talking about retail down in the financial centre of Toronto then that is a different. That is a densly populated employment area that thrives M-F 8AM till 6PM with around 1200 shops underground. Ever been to Canary Warf on a weekend? DEAD DEAD DEAD...................
 
The Path is very busy during Business hours.
 
If you are talking about retail down in the financial centre of Toronto then that is a different. That is a densly populated employment area that thrives M-F 8AM till 6PM with around 1200 shops underground. Ever been to Canary Warf on a weekend? DEAD DEAD DEAD
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Yes, but unlike CW, our CBD is not out on the fringes of the city, its transit system, etc. Our CBD should be more similar to Midtown Manhattan, or even something like Shinjuku in Tokyo, where there are many office buildings on one side of the huge train station there, but much shopping/entertainment on the other.

In Tokyo, another great area to consider is the traditional business downtown, Marunouchi, where newer office buildings reserve the first 6-7 storeys to shopping, restaurants, etc, with offices on top. It has changed the area from pure business uses to a zone with 24/7 activity and interest.
 
BobBob said:
Yes, but unlike CW, our CBD is not out on the fringes of the city, its transit system, etc. Our CBD should be more similar to Midtown Manhattan, or even something like Shinjuku in Tokyo, where there are many office buildings on one side of the huge train station there, but much shopping/entertainment on the other.

In Tokyo, another great area to consider is the traditional business downtown, Marunouchi, where newer office buildings reserve the first 6-7 storeys to shopping, restaurants, etc, with offices on top. It has changed the area from pure business uses to a zone with 24/7 activity and interest.
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Toronto should consider bringing this type of concept to new developments south of Front st. :)
 
If you are comparing areas, I think that the (much smaller) Toronto equivalents of midtown Manhattan would be Yonge and each of Bloor, St. Clair, and Eglignton. Like Toronto's central business district, lower Manhattan is quite dead on evenings and weekends.
 
lower Manhattan is quite dead on evenings and weekends.
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and its very dirty like exactly you see on TV.

Its just I hear people go to Manhattan and never go below 34th street and say everything is all beautiful. :D
 
The old World Trade Center had a massive mall underground that was similar to PATH. It too only operated during business hours thus contributing to the dead zone down there. They are trying to change that with the new developments.
 
BobBob said:
In Tokyo, another great area to consider is the traditional business downtown, Marunouchi, where newer office buildings reserve the first 6-7 storeys to shopping, restaurants, etc, with offices on top. It has changed the area from pure business uses to a zone with 24/7 activity and interest.
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Yeah this is what I meant basically, If you look at any of the higher density south east asian citys, many of the office towers dedicate the first 5-7 floors to shopping. As in Kuala Lumpur, Jarkarta, Tokyo etc.

Anyways, the point is, lone office towers deaden the surrounding area past working hours. If your gonna put an office building in a residential area, at least make the ground floors nothing but shops.

Furthermore, to make the best use of a big mall in a dense urban environment, then there might as well be a hotel, office, residential units above.
 
People constantly rail that Square One "must be demolished" if MCC is ever to be a real downtown. I disagree. They could easily build residential buildings on top of Square One (eventually). I like the idea of a floor or two of retail on the bottoms of residential and/or office buildings (5-7 floors is excessive for Toronto I think).
 
This thread is not the place for posts slagging American cities, so they have been excised.

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