SmartTrack (Proposed)

[gweed123]

I think Queens Park has been clear that it is committing no money, beyond what it's already planned for the electrified RER service to existing stations.

So 100% Toronto for new stations, additional service, etc.

That would be my understanding as well. If a section of SmartTrack happens to overlap GO RER, then it'll be covered under the GO RER tab (Provincial). But if the City decides to build a spur off the RER mainline (ex: Eglinton West, potential Scarborough Spur), then it would be on the City's dime.

 

[wopchop]

The SmartTrack stations and Eglinton Spur were specifically outlined in the Spring Budget as not being funded by the Province.

 

[Tuscani01]

The SmartTrack stations and Eglinton Spur were specifically outlined in the Spring Budget as not being funded by the Province.

The Feds comitted $2.6 Billion to Smart Track though, so a massive chunk of the Eglinton West portion is technically funded. That only leaves the city's share of the cost remaining, so $2.6 Billion.

 

[gweed123]

The Feds comitted $2.6 Billion to Smart Track though, so a massive chunk of the Eglinton West portion is technically funded. That only leaves the city's share of the cost remaining, so $2.6 Billion.

Thanks for that graphic wopchop. And yes, $2.6 billion is a pretty sizeable chunk, but we still don't even know what the real total cost of SmartTrack is, since $8 billion is clearly way out of whack considering how much of it uses GO RER corridors, for which the tab is already being picked up by the Province. I'm still waiting for Metrolinx to release a cost estimate on how much SmartTrack will cost beyond what is already being spent on RER.

 

[nhui06]

Willing to bet that SmartTrack will just be GO RER with a few more Toronto stations and better intergrated fare. Basically a more local all-day service from Unionville down to Union Station, and then up to Bramela area. Whether the Western portion and the Eastern portion will be connected may also be a question mark. I highly doubt that airport center spur will be built period. Current GO stop at Milton may be used along with better bus service to service the airport area

 

[ShonTron]

The Feds comitted $2.6 Billion to Smart Track though, so a massive chunk of the Eglinton West portion is technically funded. That only leaves the city's share of the cost remaining, so $2.6 Billion.

What if "Eglinton West Extension" simply means the Crosstown LRT extension deferred by the province?

 

[nfitz]

The Feds comitted $2.6 Billion to Smart Track though, so a massive chunk of the Eglinton West portion is technically funded. That only leaves the city's share of the cost remaining, so $2.6 Billion.

I don't think an election promise has much standing unless the Conservatives are re-elected. The other parties have said they'd stand by older promises, such as the Scarborough subway funding; no indication they'd stand by this one that I recall.

Even that, that $2.6 billion is contingent on the province and city finding $5.2 billion.

So with nothing from the province, that requires $5.2 billion from the city. I'll be surprised to find 22 councillors backing that!

 

[innsertnamehere]

presuming Smart-Track comes to $8 billion, which I still find rather doubtful. A ~$3 billion cost is more likely to me.

 

[TOareaFan]

Willing to bet that SmartTrack will just be GO RER with a few more Toronto stations and better intergrated fare. Basically a more local all-day service from Unionville down to Union Station, and then up to Bramela area. Whether the Western portion and the Eastern portion will be connected may also be a question mark. I highly doubt that airport center spur will be built period. Current GO stop at Milton may be used along with better bus service to service the airport area

apologies to you for posting this in response to your post....but you are one of many that make this mistake and it stuns me how many people mix up the Malton and Milton stops....Malton near the airport on the KW line....Milton, not so much

 

[ssiguy2]

Well it's good to see it will be Toronto's dime.

If this is the case it will certainly force the city to raise revenues because Toronto will want a lot more stations than RER will provide.

 

[aquateam]

Well it's good to see it will be Toronto's dime.

If this is the case it will certainly force the city to raise revenues because Toronto will want a lot more stations than RER will provide.

Why is this a good thing that it would be Toronto's dime?

 

[Forgotten]

Why is this a good thing that it would be Toronto's dime?

ssiguy's posts on this matter never made any sense to begin with. The rest of Ontario and Canada steal billions from Toronto every year.

 

[mdrejhon]

presuming Smart-Track comes to $8 billion, which I still find rather doubtful. A ~$3 billion cost is more likely to me.

I interpreted that the cost is really broken down to something like:

$2.6Bn -- electrification GO RER
$2.6Bn -- Tory's infill stations
$2.6Bn -- Tory's Eglinton "enhancement".
-----------------
$8Bn "SmartTrack" package

Chop Tory's enhancements (Eglinton and infill stations), and we fall to near $3 billion GO RER was going to cost for this routing. I say, keep the infill stations, but chop the pricey Eglinton, extend the Crosstown all the way to Hurontario LRT instead, and send SmartTrack to Brampton GO and/or Pearson (i.e. alternated to both).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I interpreted that the cost is really broken down to something like:

$2.6Bn -- electrification GO RER
$2.6Bn -- Tory's infill stations
$2.6Bn -- Tory's Eglinton "enhancement".
-----------------
$8Bn "SmartTrack" package

Chop Tory's enhancements (Eglinton and infill stations), and we fall to near $3 billion GO RER was going to cost for this routing. I say, keep the infill stations, but chop the pricey Eglinton, extend the Crosstown all the way to Hurontario LRT instead, and send SmartTrack to Brampton GO and/or Pearson (i.e. alternated to both).

How would the infill stations cost anywhere near $2.6 Billion to build? Even underground subway stations cost "only" about $200 Million each to build ($2.6 Bn would be enough to build 13 stations). Surely at-grade stations that are little more than slabs of concrete are far less expensive.

 

[mdrejhon]

How would the infill stations cost anywhere near $2.6 Billion to build? Even underground subway stations cost "only" about $200 Million each to build ($2.6 Bn would be enough to build 13 stations). Surely at-grade stations that are little more than slabs of concrete are far less expensive.

-- This factors in the cost of the theoretical Eglinton stations which would no doubt, be extremely expensive.
-- Several SmartTrack stations are complex interchange stations
-- Given the trainsets /might/ be high-platform (we don't know that for sure, yet) that may also require retrofits to some existing stations, too, especially if SmartTrack replaces the GO trains at certain stations.
-- There's lots of difficulty installing the infill stations in some of the proposed locations. Some of the infrastructure station may need to go underground anyway, before accessing surface platforms -- due to lack of space next to the tracks.
-- There are actually a whopping dozen (or so) infill stations.

I was giving an approximate split -- there is probably inexact give or take (e.g. 2bn+3bn+3bn). It could still take almost a third of the SmartTrack budget, depending on how it's done. If we went shoestring and went "Exhibition" or "Long Branch", certainly this is stupidly expensive.

Obviuosly, if we chopped the Eglinton spur, it probably also dramatically lower the costs of the infill stations. There could be some scaleback too, but let's wait and see what kind of stations get proposed for SmartTrack.

While I don't want ALL the SmartTrack elements (e.g. the stupendously expensive Eglinton) -- I like the idea of something more enhanced than GO RER -- with plenty of infill stations, perhaps with express-allstop tracks, with the Kitchener diesels GO trains giong express past all the SmartTrack stations, to keep the station design simpler (especially if, for example, 150-meter high-platform trains are chosen).