mdrejhon
Senior Member
Malton, Milton, Halton, Hamiltonmany people mix up the Malton and Milton stops....Malton near the airport on the KW line....Milton, not so much
Sounds like a ton of -lton's.
And it ain't the Hilton Hotel.
Malton, Milton, Halton, Hamiltonmany people mix up the Malton and Milton stops....Malton near the airport on the KW line....Milton, not so much
RER and ST are the same thing.I still can't imagine RER and ST coexisting on the same tracks without some capability for RER to overtake the ST trains. So budget some money for four-track stations or short three or four track segments so the ST trains can get out of the way.
They are not. Ontario has already promised to fully fund RER on the Stouffville and Kitchener lines.RER and ST are the same thing.
On that 2.6/2.6/2.6 list there's no entry for the new platforms at Union for ST. Presumably that's also part of the $2.6.How would the infill stations cost anywhere near $2.6 Billion to build?
Every smart reader will recognize we are disagreeing only on semantics.They are not. Ontario has already promised to fully fund RER on the Stouffville and Kitchener lines.
That would mean the only difference between RER and ST then is the Heavy Rail down E
GLOSSARY -- for the purposes of the SmartTrack thread
"RER" -- pretending Tory never existed -- whatever original Ontario plan for frequent electric trains in the core segment of the Kitchener and Stoufville corridor, roughly between Bramalea through Unionville. We're of course, excluding the non-electrics, even though the RER umbrella often includes upgraded diesels.
"ST"/"SmartTrack" -- the Tory enhanced version of the said above RER plan
Metrolinx has been very clear on what RER is (electrified 2-way all-day GO service). And what it isn't (SmartTrack). And what they are 100% funding (RER); and what they are 0% funding (SmartTrack).Every smart reader will recognize we are disagreeing only on semantics.
There are multiple interpretations of the terms, since RER can be a general plan of the whole GO upgrades, including express diesel trains.
Not all parties (Federal, Provincial, Muncipal, UrbanToronto) and sometimes they came up with their own terminologies after UrbanToronto already came up with theirs. Regardless, just use the glossary I used, until there's consistency. Whatever brand name they plan to use (GO, SmartTrack, RER) publicly in 7 to 10 years from now is likely going to be different.Metrolinx has been very clear on what RER is (electrified 2-way all-day GO service). And what it isn't (SmartTrack).
Doesn't matter what you call them, semi-stopping trains and all-stops trains won't coexist unless the semi-stopping trains can overtake the all-stoppers.
- Paul
All areas where RER and Smarttrack work (Kitchener Line/Stouffville Line) will be at minimum triple tracked. This is to allow the bi-levels to still operate at the same time to the outer portion of the network.
So, with three tracks you can always bypass all-stop trains and this is what will happen..
That would be great.
However, space will be an issue at numerous points along the Stouffville line:
a) South of Bloor, in the Gerrard area. Three tracks fit there, but they need to be shared between the Stouffville line, Lakeshore East GO, VIA trains, and freight trains. I am not sure if 4 or more tracks can fit.
b) The southern end of the Uxbridge sub. It runs fairly close to the existing houses.
c) North of 401, and especially north of Sheppard, space is tight as well.
The Gerrard area has 4 tracking in the Big Move plans by Metrolinx for RER as was discussed in their meeting on December 5th, 2014. 4 tracks can fit as they are doing it. This area also has not seen freight for a while, except at very very random and minimal times at night.
According to the GO RER implementation it will be 4 tracks on Lakeshore and 3 throughout Stouffville, as its needed, so while it may seem tight, they are confident it can be done.
The south end of the Uxbridge will have more room when Scarborough RT is gone due to subway extension: however it will be a bit later than Smarttrack will supposedly be done. They can always do 2 track in this area and 3 in majority of rest as long as they use modern signalling equipment.
Let's hope so; but such information can be counted as reliable only after the engineering studies are complete. High-level policy documents, at times, contain assumptions that turn to be unfeasible or way too expensive once the detailed studies are complete.
The most problematic section is south of Kennedy Stn, not the one that runs along Scarborough RT. Maybe they can operate with 2 tracks between the Lakeshore junction and Kennedy Stn, and 3 (or even 4) tracks from Kennedy Stn to 401.
Absolutely. I'm not even sure at this point that 3 tracks is a "decision", so much as it is a pretty no-brainer assumption. The question would be - will three even be enough? LSE/LSW got away with 3 tracks because the service was always a unidirectional peak service with a less than substantial counter flow service. Full 2WAD service with ST also 2WAD added will choke with three.
The big point, being - the added costs of the 3rd and 4th track likely should be accrued to ST and not to RER....which is why the price tag goes up....lots of land acquisition, underpass widening, civil works, etc
Some 2- or 3- track sections may be feasible, for a couple decades anyways, but this will set an upper limit on train frequency. I'd hate to see a repeat of the Weston Sub where we are promised a Cadillac and end up with a Trabant, because the trackage just isn't there yet.
- Paul
With the proper signalling, you can have all day 2 way bi levels running every 30 minutes and RER running every 15 minutes in all directions easily. Its not like driving a car, with the proper switches every couple of miles and the proper signalling you can navigate trains around each other with ease.
If you are referring to the lack of new GO trains on the Kitchener Line, the issue with the Weston sub is not trackage, its the lack of actual trains and drivers. We have enough room on the tracks, and then some right now,
we simply just do not have the vehicles and employees right now. The infrastructure is there. The 4th track will be needed for RER/Smarttrack but that is coming soon