SmartTrack (Proposed)

[AnarchoSocialist]

With both a carrot and a stick hopefully the amorphous blob of a concept which is SmartTrack can be moulded into something that actually lives up to its potential.

(H/T ShonTron for pointing out how so many community groups use SOS as their name.)

Hilarious and almost painfully possible to see that actually happening.

Ultimately I agree that SmartTrack as it stands is a half thought out plan. Right idea. Poor execution of the details and lack of respect for the planning process.

As lots of other people here have said this will likely just get absorbed into RER as super-local type of service on GOs electrified lines. And that's a great idea. It'll just take a bit more time to weed the politicking that developed the plan out of it and to let the professionals refine it.

 

[Adjei]

Funny the length Ford apologists will go to defend their man. They live in their own alternate world.

 

[interchange42]

Ontario's Minister of Transportation Steven Del Duca and Ontario's Minister of Economic Development, Employment and Infrastructure Brad Duguid have released the following joint statement:
June 18, 2015

"We are pleased the federal government has joined us at the table with their share of support to the City's SmartTrack proposal, which will be delivered by Metrolinx, through the Province's GO Regional Express Rail (RER) Plan.

As announced in the 2015 provincial budget, Ontario is leading the way by investing billions of dollars in our GO Transit system through the transformative RER initiative. Recognizing that the City's SmartTrack concept is largely dependent on the province's corridors and infrastructure, Ontario was the first to partner with the City in this project to help manage congestion in Toronto.

With shovels in the ground on hundreds of critical infrastructure projects already underway, Ontario welcomes federal dollars to help continue building the integrated transit and transportation network the people of this region expect us to build.

Our government has already committed to electrify the existing GO corridors which are segments of Toronto's Smart Track proposal, and $13.5 Billion to implement Regional Express Rail across Ontario's GO Transit network. Ontario's investments in RER make Smart Track possible.

As part of the largest infrastructure investment in Ontario's history, our government is investing $16 Billion for GTHA and $15 Billion across the rest of the province in the transportation infrastructure projects that will create and sustain jobs, fuel economic growth, and make moving across our province easier and more seamless.

While this federal investment is positive news for the people of Ontario, our government remains concerned that the federal government is not investing nearly enough in Ontario's public infrastructure. By comparison, the Ontario government is investing over $130 Billion in the province over the next ten years - three times more per capita than the federal government. We will continue to strongly urge the federal government to provide stable, long-term infrastructure funding.

Provinces and municipalities across Canada cannot shoulder infrastructure investments alone; we need a federal partner to invest in our future.

Announcements such as todays leave questions around other Ontario priority projects that we have continually brought to the attention of the federal government. Ontario has submitted over 100 priority projects to the federal government for infrastructure funding under the Building Canada Fund.

To date, Ontario has only received approval on one project within the Provincial Territorial Infrastructure Component - the Ottawa River Action Plan.

The priority projects that Ontario has put forward to the federal government, including six highway expansion projects, two GO transit projects, the Maley Drive extension in Sudbury, a number of nominated Small Community Fund projects, and a call for the federal government to match Ontario's $1 Billion commitment to the Ring of Fire, have not received any response.

Canada needs the Canadian Infrastructure Partnership proposed by Premier Wynne - a collaborative approach to stable, long-term infrastructure funding with a commitment of five per cent of GDP in infrastructure renewal, which is the amount needed to drive productivity and economic growth across Canada."

 

[robmausser]

The SmartTrack study is studying an alternative route that would build a spur going south from the Kitchener line to Pearson and Airport Corporate Centre. The Eglinton route is not feasible. This route would have to go underground and would cost several billion dollars. It does not admit that the UP Express will be removed if this is built but this is obvious. The UP Express spur cannot accommodate regular GO trains so it will have to be replaced.

Actually the Pearson Spur can accommodate regular GO trains, if it had a platform big enough.

It had to be built to Transport Canada standards to be connected to the Kitchener Line. Even though it will never see such a heavy train use it, Transport Canada requires it to be able to support it.

That's neither here nor there though, since GO RER/Smarttrack will use electric trains about the same size as the Union Pearson Express. (but longer)

So you are wrong. Twice!

 

[GenerationW]

How soon until Mulclair or Trudeau tops Harper by proposing $3 billion to fund SmartTrack?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

How soon until Mulclair or Trudeau tops Harper by proposing $3 billion to fund SmartTrack?

I don't think they have to do anything at all other than making noises about it - they will probably say that infrastructure is always their priority, that Harper is shopping for votes in an area he never had any interest, that they will commit more overall to transit, etc.

What I found interesting is how Metrolinx - a provincial agency - basically enabled yesterday's photo-op. I would love to be a fly on the wall around THAT discussion.

AoD

 

[mdrejhon]

Group #1 - Save our SmartTrack

[snip]

Group #2 - Steamed over SmartTrack

Nobel Prize material. You might have invented a reaction more powerful than antimatter, and can power the world with this.

If my math is correct, that means $2.6 billion dollars isn't actually available until the 2020-2021 budget.

Actually, from media news I've read, the 2.6bn pledged by Harper is in addition above-and-beyond this transit fund.

Not defending Harper here, but, are some news articles incorrect?

 

[wopchop]

Actually, from media news I've read, the 2.6bn pledged by Harper is in addition above-and-beyond this transit fund.

Not defending Harper here, but, are some news articles incorrect?

Where did you read that? Both the Toronto Star and the CBC are reporting that it is part of the Public Transit Fund. I suppose that is possible, but that isn't how the media was reporting it or how they announced it (see article). They specifically announced the $2.6b as part of the "Public Transit Fund", which has very specific numbers that were detailed in the spring budget, and is also dependent on an application for the money (which they mentioned as part of the announcement) and are as per my previous post.

But the city will have to apply for the funding — a billion dollars per year starting in 2019 — just like other cities in Canada. The municipal portion of the funding for SmartTrack remains undecided.

Source: CBC

The money promised by Harper is part of the Conservative government’s Public Transit Fund intended for projects that cost at least $1 billion and benefit broad urban regions. They also need to include a private-sector component.

Source: Toronto Star

The federal money will come from the new Public Transit Fund that was launched in the April federal budget.

The new fund was budgeted to start in 2017-18 with $250-million and would rise to $1-billion a year by 2019-20. Unlike previous federal funding models, Ottawa had said the program would spread funding over a much longer period, such as 20 to 30 years.

Source: The Globe and Mail


If the $2.6b is new money, as you say, then that defeats the Federal Conservatives claim of a balanced budget, as now that money needs to be accounted for.

 

[wopchop]

How long will it take to build? Last time I checked, the Provincial government doesn't have $16B lying around either....but we believe them when they promise to spend it.....and they haven't yet identified where it all might come from.

I'm not concerned about the money being real. What I find ridiculous is that, during an election year, Harper is promising $2.6b of out of his Public Transit Fund, which won't have $2.6 billion in it until another election year. A fund, by the way, that is supposedly meant for the entire bloody country.

It is a perfect example of the complete political bankruptcy of this government that is far past it's expiration date. Just like this and last week's string of legislation put forward to Parliament that has no chance of leaving Parliament before it ends, and is simply meant as an electioneering tactic.

Also, don't forget that Tory has continually been pushing that SmartTrack will be built "within 7 years" (see source).

 

[TOareaFan]

I'm not concerned about the money being real. What I find ridiculous is that, during an election year, Harper is promising $2.6b of out of his Public Transit Fund, which won't have $2.6 billion in it until another election year. A fund, by the way, that is supposedly meant for the entire bloody country.

It is a perfect example of the complete political bankruptcy of this government that is far past it's expiration date. Just like this and last week's string of legislation put forward to Parliament that has no chance of leaving Parliament before it ends, and is simply meant as an electioneering tactic.

Also, don't forget that Tory has continually been pushing that SmartTrack will be built "within 7 years" (see source).

So in 7 years 2022 will there be $2.6B? in the fund?

I don't want to get political (because I believe all parties at all levels do this)....last year was an election year in Ontario and we weren't so critical of the sudden announcements of 15 minute RER all over the GTHA and HSR to KW and the expenditure of $29B of unidentified money.....that was my point.

 

[agoraflaneur]

While I absolutely abhor the Harper Conservatives, I doubt any commitment by any government would see large amounts of capital dollars flowing in the next couple years for smart track. Other posters will know more, but with planning barely under way (despite the laughable comments by Harper regarding SmartTrack's advanced stage of planning vis a vis the DRL) the only expenses in the next couple of years would seem to me to be for EAs. That's millions, not billions. Maybe MetroLinx could use some cash earlier for its plans, but they seem to be upset that they are being asked to get electrification done "quickly," so I'm not convinced they will be ready to spend huge amounts of money very soon.

Still, the Cons infrastructure commitments to this country have been laughable. I mean, their fund has only 250 million for the first year. Our economy is trending toward 2 Trillion. The feds should be using Ontario's investment of 150Billion over 10 years as a yardstick. THAT would really get this province moving. Every major city in this country has worthwhile projects that will be good investments (except the Scarb subway, but I digress). Vancouver needs a subway on Broadway. Surrey needs LRTs. Edmonton and Calgary need to expand their successful systems. Ditto Ottawa. Montreal. Hamilton, Mississauga ... well, you get the point.

Overall, as long as the DRL doesn't get completely sidelined, I think RER/Smart Track will be an awesome addition to the city's transit landscape. We need both. Living in Berlin last summer I just loved hopping on both the S-Bahn and U-Bahn - whichever was more convenient. My only real worry is that the demands of the suburbanites to move quickly will lead to too few stations or that there will be insufficient capacity. Harper's pledge might be political bs - especially since the Cons literally told Toronto to f*ck off when it came to investing in this city over the last 10 years - but I agree with other posters that it will put pressure on other parties to do the same. It is a good idea, Metrolinx is already doing it, we just need to make sure that the city and the suburbs are equally well served. I can't see the NDP or Liberals saying RER is not worthy of investment. I'd hate to be proven wrong.

 

[agoraflaneur]

So in 7 years 2022 will there be $2.6B? in the fund?

I don't want to get political (because I believe all parties at all levels do this)....last year was an election year in Ontario and we weren't so critical of the sudden announcements of 15 minute RER all over the GTHA and HSR to KW and the expenditure of $29B of unidentified money.....that was my point.

I won't say that the Liberals aren't opportunist like all political parties, but they have always made noises about transit. They are finally getting serious and we are finally getting some results. They have invested lots of money in new highways and transit previously, which made their pledge more convincing. The federal conservatives have been all about resources. And now that strategy has failed dramatically. If it wasn't Jim telling people not to invest in Ontario for political points or Baird telling us to f off, it was Convervatives investing much more per capita in the small rural communities that support them all over this country. The promise rings untrue. They put a huge commitment down in Labrador with their dam and power network all to just bypass Quebec. Ok, they are building a new bridge connection to Detroit. But then take their other commitments. Even to the military. They promised the moon and actually reduced funding. Then they changed laws so that more people would go to jail for longer - but put most of the cost on the provinces. Otherwise they are mostly interested in cutting taxes and racking up our debt by 160B + by investing in hockey rinks, fitness tax credits, and monthly payments to parents.

Again, say what you will about the liberals, but I just rode on the UPX, looked at a thread of the Mississauga transitway, checked out construction progress on the University Line, poked around Union station, explored the West Don Lands, walked on QQ, have heard vague rumblings of multiple highway extensions (don't drive so I forget the full list but there has been lots going on), etc. They have delivered and I believe they will deliver more - there is just so, so much to catch up on.

 

[wopchop]

So in 7 years 2022 will there be $2.6B? in the fund?

Right, and that assumes that;

1) the fund is exclusively for Toronto's SmartTrack
2) that they don't increase the size of the fund, throwing their promised balanced budget out the window.
3) That there isn't major political backlash for promising Toronto the entire sum of the first four years of their national Public Transit Fund.

I don't want to get political (because I believe all parties at all levels do this)....last year was an election year in Ontario and we weren't so critical of the sudden announcements of 15 minute RER all over the GTHA and HSR to KW and the expenditure of $29B of unidentified money.....that was my point.

Not sure why you don't want to get political. This is entirely political. My anger about it is basically all political frustration. Like agora said, Harper has basically told the GTA to go fuck itself for the last decade. If you remember, in 2008 when he was still PC leader, Tory himself was very critical of Harper regarding the massive budget surpluses the Feds were recording, while claiming to have nothing for the GTA. Now that Harper is in trouble, and smells defeat, he starts promising the world. Their promises, as agora points out above, have mostly been worthless - and this one on its face also looks worthless.

I get that's how politics works, but this current Federal government takes it to a whole other level. And it is despicable.

 

[salsa]

I'm not concerned about the money being real. What I find ridiculous is that, during an election year, Harper is promising $2.6b of out of his Public Transit Fund, which won't have $2.6 billion in it until another election year. A fund, by the way, that is supposedly meant for the entire bloody country.

After 10 years Harper noticed Toronto. The poll numbers must be bad. However this funding announcement is so fake and meaningless that I will just pretend it never happened. But Tory will just lap it all up.

 

[Edward Skira]

I'm surprised they didn't paint the streetcar and bus blue for the occasion.