SmartTrack (Proposed)

[Edward Skira]

The feds reduced the GST from 7% to 5%. The province should have increased the PST at the same time by 2%. Would have significantly reduced the annual provincial deficit and made it easier to fund any transit that the province needed. And then depending on an indifferent or outright hostile federal government wouldn't have been an issue.

 

[Tuscani01]

The feds reduced the GST from 7% to 5%. The province should have increased the PST at the same time by 2%. Would have significantly reduced the annual provincial deficit and made it easier to fund any transit that the province needed. And then depending on an indifferent or outright hostile federal government wouldn't have been an issue.

The Province considered it and got shot down by the Feds when they brought it up.

Federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty warned Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa that no increase to the 13 per cent HST to fund public transit would be permitted.

“We did not lower the GST to have it taken away from Ontarians by the Wynne government with a new sales tax hike,” said Flaherty, who cut the federal levy from 7 per cent to 5 per cent prior to harmonization.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...t_hike_to_fund_public_transit_in_ontario.html

 

[Edward Skira]

Do the feds have the power to tell the province what their tax rate is?

 

[Adjei]

And how politically tenable is increasing the tax rate after it was just decreased?

 

[TOareaFan]

Do the feds have the power to tell the province what their tax rate is?

I believe that all the provinces that have HST have signed harmonization agreements with the federal government and that agreement contains language that governs stuff like that.

 

[Edward Skira]

And how politically tenable is increasing the tax rate after it was just decreased?

Well if you are running deficits and resorting to selling assets (Hydro) to fund needed transit then maybe you need to do something. To Ontario residents nothing would have changed at the time. Same tax rate going forward so it wouldn't have been an increase. The only change would have been where the money went. It makes no sense to me that Ontario is begging Ottawa for transit money. You need it then raise it.

 

[mdrejhon]

Personally, I would have been happy at 15% HST if the extra 2% had been guaranteed to have gone straight to transit expansions in the first place (one way or another). Whether it be bus, LRT, subways, GO upgrades, public transit hotdogmobile (j/k), or Thomas The Tank Engine pulling several brand new GOtrain coaches, etc.

Especially if it meant we didn't have to sell Hydro One.

 

[agoraflaneur]

Even if Ontario could legally increase its PST by 2% - which would have been and still is the best thing to do so that the Province, which is responsible for most of the things important to citizens - the Conservatives made it so difficult politically that the Ontario Liberals couldn't have done it. Federal Conservatives attacked the provincial Liberals continuously, saying (falsely) that Ontario is a high tax jurisdiction and repeating "Tax and Spend Liberal" so much Canadians could have been forgiven thinking that this was the United States.

Still, Quebec raised its PST - and they have a harmonization agreement with the Feds (don't know if it is different from Ontario's somehow, though). It would take political will. But we all know that a sales tax increase is politically toxic in English Canada. Look at the Alberta NDP, where they are getting rid of a decent broad based tax - a health levy - on anyone making 50K +and instead are increasing corporate taxes and income taxes on people making 150K+.

The provincial liberals figured that they would lose power by increasing the PST, and that was potentially correct. Then we wouldn't be getting all of the infrastructure spending but instead income tax cuts. It's all about holding the tenuous political line.

 

[Adjei]

Well if you are running deficits and resorting to selling assets (Hydro) to fund needed transit then maybe you need to do something. To Ontario residents nothing would have changed at the time. Same tax rate going forward so it wouldn't have been an increase. The only change would have been where the money went. It makes no sense to me that Ontario is begging Ottawa for transit money. You need it then raise it.

Right and do that and you have the Conservatives or NDP who will come out and say that they can build all the transit we need without having to raise it. That's reality and you are dealing with politicians. See how Rob Ford came into power. It would be become a wedge issue which I think the Liberals didn't want to have to defend.

 

[Adjei]

Even if Ontario could legally increase its PST by 2% - which would have been and still is the best thing to do so that the Province, which is responsible for most of the things important to citizens - the Conservatives made it so difficult politically that the Ontario Liberals couldn't have done it. Federal Conservatives attacked the provincial Liberals continuously, saying (falsely) that Ontario is a high tax jurisdiction and repeating "Tax and Spend Liberal" so much Canadians could have been forgiven thinking that this was the United States.

Still, Quebec raised its PST - and they have a harmonization agreement with the Feds (don't know if it is different from Ontario's somehow, though). It would take political will. But we all know that a sales tax increase is politically toxic in English Canada. Look at the Alberta NDP, where they are getting rid of a decent broad based tax - a health levy - on anyone making 50K +and instead are increasing corporate taxes and income taxes on people making 150K+.

The provincial liberals figured that they would lose power by increasing the PST, and that was potentially correct. Then we wouldn't be getting all of the infrastructure spending but instead income tax cuts. It's all about holding the tenuous political line.

Some people act as if they don't live in the real world. Talking about something on paper is easy but actually implementing is the hard paper. The Liberals propose to raise the tax rate by 2% and you have the provincial and federal Conservatives attacking them. Look how much the federal Finance Minister was attacking the recent Ontario budget. That is a battle the Liberals were not willing to fight.

 

[allabootmatt]

Interesting that the conceptual SmartTrack plan seems to have acquired a third station between Union and Dundas West on the west sid, whereas the Tory campaign proposal had only two. Looks like the February council item was amended to include this by Cesar Palacio, of all people.

I know the station locations and quantity are going to be subject to massive change as this plan gets, y'know, actual study. But it's nice to see pols at least paying lip service to making it a useful service for the core.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Is SmartTrack political fodder or will it be real?

 

[ssiguy2]

I hope it's real because it serves hundreds of thousands who have no access to rapid/mass transit now and it logically makes use of existing infrastructure.

It should also go ahead regardless of what some councillors think. Tory can legitimately say that he was voted in due to his ST program. There were only 2 real issues in the last campaign.........Ford and Transit. Getting rid of Ford, you had a battle between Chow and Tory with 2 very different transit plans. Tory was very explicit about ST and basically said nothing about a DRL so he can say that he was voted in due to the plan. He can also say that it wasn't just suburbanites who voted for him and his ST plan as he got seats across the City including Old Toronto itself.

He has the mandate to go ahead and Metrolinx, Queen's Park, TTC, councillors, and policy wonks should respect it. It also blends in well with RER which seems to be Wynne's and Metrolinx's top priority.

If it was just another platform then his plan may come us as not endorsed but transit was THE policy issue in the last election so he can very legitimately say he has both the mandate and the backing of the populace.

 

[Amare]

Is SmartTrack political fodder or will it be real?

Mostly political fodder, but in the long run it will turn out being GO RER with the province "agreeing" to add a few additional infill stations. But that's not so much a bad thing since Metrolinx has been very closed-minded about adding infill stations on their network.

I really dont have anything against John Tory (at least not yet), but he's starting to come off as little two-faced. He will say one thing to get photo ops/credit but behind the scenes he plans hidden cuts, different plans, etc... Hopefully i'm wrong but he's appearing to head down the path of being smiling face with a hidden agenda.

 

[ssiguy2]

Its true it is basically a GO RER with more stations but with one BIG exception.............it was a TTC fare. GO RER is still GO and many can't afford it and this is why it gained traction in the election. It's a GO RER systems that will actually be useful to people in the 416.