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SmartTrack (Proposed)

No....the 10 car trains are very full.

Again you misunderstand.

I'm saying while the 10 car trains are full, all they have to do is add 2 more coaches to them to make them 12 car trains, something that is really easy and adds about 15% more capacity. Understand?

So the capability for more capacity on the bilevels is easily there.

They also can increase the number of trains, there is opportunity for more trains still in that corridor, with a 4th track that has yet to be installed but is planned/funded.

Smart track will also take about 10% of the ridership, so combine that with adding 2 more coaches to the trains and you have a 25% increase in service even without adding any more trainsets.
 
Again you misunderstand.

I'm saying while the 10 car trains are full, all they have to do is add 2 more coaches to them to make them 12 car trains, something that is really easy and adds about 15% more capacity. Understand?

So the capability for more capacity on the bilevels is easily there.

They also can increase the number of trains, there is opportunity for more trains still in that corridor, with a 4th track that has yet to be installed but is planned/funded.

Smart track will also take about 10% of the ridership, so combine that with adding 2 more coaches to the trains and you have a 25% increase in service even without adding any more trainsets.

I think you may be missing the point I was making (the size of the trains was just a side-track in the discussion) whether these are 10 car trains or 12 car trains....if they are going to be bypassing the busiest stations on the line (as was/is suggested) then they are going to have way too much capacity for the service they are being used for.
 
Sorry I was't clear: I fully expect the GO bilevels to not stop at RER/Smarttrack stations once RER/Smarttrack is in place.

I agree completely with them used entirely as express trains that don't stop in the 416.

Union -> Unionville making all stops to Lincolnville
Union -> Mount Pleasant making all stops to Kitchener

and so forth.

This STILL will take demand off of the RER/Smarttrack lines, because remember: a lot of the people taking up seats in the 416 on the bilevels arent getting off in the 416 currently, they continue on to the 905/out of the GTA. But they still take up seats.

RER/Smarttrack has to look at only what people take the GO train currently at the inner stations, which is not much to be honest. Something like 90% of GO ridership stays on the train until the 905/Outer GTA.

So 90% of the demand on RER/Smarttrack will be whatever usage will be predicted when new stations are added, all day service is added, and when people can pay a $3 TTC fare and use it.

So very little of the current GO train usage will affect RER/Smarttrack, it will be mostly new usage, NOT new ridership compounded onto current ridership.

Fortunately most transit authorities do not create such a linear division between express and all-stops. It is quite often beneficial for the intermediate stops to vary which allows more locations to have direct service. It is all dependant on supply and demand of the stop and the destination.

This is quite common for commuter trains on busy lines. Take for example Lakeshore West. Certain trains are express from Clarkson and others from Oakville. And if demand warranted (and there was track capacity) I'm sure they would have express trains from Burlington. In the UK it is quite common for trains to be semi-express....stopping every 2 or 3 stops (with each one varying which stop they are calling at).

Once there is a tap on/tap off system with Presto it will be very easy to understand supply and demand and final destinations from various locations. Maybe every other train stops at Dundas West...but we won't know and the system has to be dynamic enough to grow/contract based upon actual demand. If the Smarttrack stations are only designed differently than GO then it will be timely and costly to change them based upon this demand.

We also forget about off-peak GO Train service. I assume on many of these lines GO would use the Smarttrack carriages at night when demand is not high to reduce the cost of using heavy bi-levels
 
Fortunately most transit authorities do not create such a linear division between express and all-stops. It is quite often beneficial for the intermediate stops to vary which allows more locations to have direct service. It is all dependant on supply and demand of the stop and the destination.
This be true - Paris RER does this.

To minimize confusion, all the text/video boards lists all possible later stops, and then highlights (e.g. checkmarks) which destinations the train will stop at.
 
Too early to tell, surely.

Though I'm also not buying that the SmartTrack RER would be using different vehicles from the GO RER. Could easily be the very same trains ...

My bet is that they're going to end up under the same branding banner. It's much less confusing to brand both GO RER and SmartTrack as GO REX or something, and simply have the two being different service patterns within the GO REX umbrella. The distinction between the two as being separate plans will likely disappear in a year or two.

EDIT: Sorry, saw that someone else said pretty much the same thing:
I'd give it another year or two of planning before there is only one brand or label for the entire RER Smarttrack plan.

I had my Stag and Doe last weekend, so I'm doing some catch-up on the discussions I missed, haha.
 
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Now that Scarborough RT is going to go the way of the dinosaur and be absorbed into the Bloor-Danforth line; I wonder if any of the new lines proposed in SmartTrack will take the number 3 title.
 
Now that Scarborough RT is going to go the way of the dinosaur and be absorbed into the Bloor-Danforth line; I wonder if any of the new lines proposed in SmartTrack will take the number 3 title.

That will likely be given to the DRL, if the SRT is indeed replaced with a subway, or an interlined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT.
 
or SmartTrack

I seriously have my doubts that SmartTrack will be run by the TTC. It'll be running 90% on GO corridors. With such high frequencies for both SmartTrack and GO RER, it would be a logistical nightmare to have two separate agencies managing those services. If both SmartTrack and GO RER trains stop at the same station, who owns the station? If it's GO, does the TTC have to pay GO a fee to maintain the station on their behalf? What if SmartTrack requires an upgrade to an existing GO station? Is that covered by the TTC, or by GO?
 
I seriously have my doubts that SmartTrack will be run by the TTC. It'll be running 90% on GO corridors. With such high frequencies for both SmartTrack and GO RER, it would be a logistical nightmare to have two separate agencies managing those services. If both SmartTrack and GO RER trains stop at the same station, who owns the station? If it's GO, does the TTC have to pay GO a fee to maintain the station on their behalf? What if SmartTrack requires an upgrade to an existing GO station? Is that covered by the TTC, or by GO?

Perhaps you are unaware, but the Eglinton Crosstown, Sheppard and Finch LRTs are not being built by the TTC but by Metrolinx. The TTC has nothing to do with them at all. They will simply be running the operations of them in terms of ticket booth, operators, drivers etc. The trains, infrastructure and construction is all owned by Metrolinx.

Same would go for Smarttrack/GO RER. It would be built/funded etc by Metrolinx, and would probably be run by GO transit with some sort of partnership with the TTC to allow crossover Presto use by someone who is travelling on the TTC.

Remember, by the time Smarttrack/GO RER is complete, there will no longer be "TTC metropasses, TTC tokens" etc. It will all be PRESTO.

All that will happen is if you paid for a TTC fare already (were already on a subway etc) you would tap your PRESTO card and not be billed for taking Smarttrack/GO RER. It would be considered a free transfer.

Same if you started on Smarttrack/GO RER and transfered to TTC.

If you took the GO system beyond the limit of Smarttrack (transfered to a GO train and kept going to say... Brampton) when you got off the GO train you would tap your PRESTO and be billed for the change in zones.
 
Well that is easy enough, as indicated in my earlier post showing the SunRail train with two coaches behind it.

You just split up the coaches into smaller trainsets. Even the Kitchener Line all the way to Kithener GO Station is poised to have all-day hourly service, so, the most logial thing to do would be to split the current 12 car bilevels into smaller, say 4 car bilevels and buy some more locomotives to run them every day hourly.

The BiLevels are modular and scalable, I dont see the problem here...
 
Perhaps you are unaware, but the Eglinton Crosstown, Sheppard and Finch LRTs are not being built by the TTC but by Metrolinx. The TTC has nothing to do with them at all. They will simply be running the operations of them in terms of ticket booth, operators, drivers etc. The trains, infrastructure and construction is all owned by Metrolinx.

Same would go for Smarttrack/GO RER. It would be built/funded etc by Metrolinx, and would probably be run by GO transit with some sort of partnership with the TTC to allow crossover Presto use by someone who is travelling on the TTC.

Remember, by the time Smarttrack/GO RER is complete, there will no longer be "TTC metropasses, TTC tokens" etc. It will all be PRESTO.

All that will happen is if you paid for a TTC fare already (were already on a subway etc) you would tap your PRESTO card and not be billed for taking Smarttrack/GO RER. It would be considered a free transfer.

Same if you started on Smarttrack/GO RER and transfered to TTC.

If you took the GO system beyond the limit of Smarttrack (transfered to a GO train and kept going to say... Brampton) when you got off the GO train you would tap your PRESTO and be billed for the change in zones.

Paying your fare is one thing, but as Gweed noted Smartrack will not be running down the middle of Eglinton or within a dedicated tunnel with equipment the TTC will be familiar with. The Crosstown line isn't a great example because it has always been a "TTC" project just being financed and built by others.

I think its a valid point that the TTC has no one capable to operate service on these GO/freight corridors.
 
I have no proof but I highly doubt that the TTC will be operating the trains.

Heck, GO doesnt even operate some of their trains.

The Milton line was run by CPR employees, for GO. Now it is run by Bombardier employees.

It doesnt matter who runs them. All that matters is that you can use TTC fare to ride on it.

Then as a rider I consider it a TTC service.
 

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