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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

I agree with your sentiment @Cobra !

I will continue advocating for conversion to LRT because I think this makes extension of the line more affordable and feasible and will spur on an equal amount of development growth as the subway (perhaps even more so, as stops will be more frequent and not just at major intersections).

We need all these rapid transit lines, it is time the Federal government joins every single other G20 nation and begins dedicating billions to capital transit projects a year, every year. The fact that we are not when 80% of our nation's population and 80% of our economy are based in our cities is ridiculous set of priorities.
 
amnesiajune said:
80% of the country lives in a population centre. Less than 60% of the country lives in a population centre with at least 100,000 residents. https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/ref/dict/table-tableau/table-tableau-7-eng.cfm

Anyways, what's the cost of converting the Sheppard Line to LRT? It would be great to have a continuous line that runs partially underground, similar to Eglinton, but wouldn't it be prohibitively expensive (and even more so than a subway line)?
Click to expand...

That's nowadays. However, we're still following the "rules" as set out at Confederation in 1867, when most people lived on farms or rurally.
 
That's not a rule, it flows from our laws where it states that municipalities are corporations under the jurisdiction of provinces. The crown's government does not extend down to the municiple level and that our constitution does not guarantee the existence of municiple governments, but rather allows for them under the authority and discretion of provinces.
 
Cobra said:
Just putting it out there. The Sheppard subway is an incomplete line build in the middle of nowhere outperforming some of Chicago's lines with over twice the length and all going downtown.

Sheppard might not be the Yonge line but a full Downsview to STC line wouldnt the epic fail everyone think it would be.

Sheppard East corridor density is growing to the point that when I go on my condo terrace, I can tell where all the Sheppard stations are by looking north.

Downsview area is due to a massive redevelopment project which will add more potential TTC users....or a 2028 Olympic bid making the western extension a no Brainer.

What about Sheppard and the 400 to take some of those cars off our roads? Underground parking + station so drivers can use the Spadina a subway?

Great cities were built this way. If every subway extension were based on the TTC ridership model, London, NYC, Paris wouldn't have a fraction of those subway extensions and stations.

I get the scarcity of available funds but we have a federal government willing to pick up 50% of the tab of any transit infrastructure projects that are shovel ready, giving much needed relief to both municipal and provincial entities. BTW, those 2 entities are having the "adult" talk that transit isn't free and revenue tools are around the corner.

Let's make Toronto great and world class. I was in London and the notion that going to one part of town to the other taking forever is utterly unacceptable. It's utterly shameful that Scarborough and nothern Etobicoke have horrendous travel time to reach their work place. That's not world class.

Let's just build the DRL Long, complete Eglinton east and West then Sheppard once and for all.

LRT on the waterfront, Jane, Islington, Lawrence West, Wilson/York Mills, Dufferin and Steeles.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Let's just end this now. Not interested in another 10 years of this crap.
 
Cobra said:
Just putting it out there. The Sheppard subway is an incomplete line build in the middle of nowhere outperforming some of Chicago's lines with over twice the length and all going downtown.

Sheppard might not be the Yonge line but a full Downsview to STC line wouldnt the epic fail everyone think it would be.

Sheppard East corridor density is growing to the point that when I go on my condo terrace, I can tell where all the Sheppard stations are by looking north.

Downsview area is due to a massive redevelopment project which will add more potential TTC users....or a 2028 Olympic bid making the western extension a no Brainer.

What about Sheppard and the 400 to take some of those cars off our roads? Underground parking + station so drivers can use the Spadina a subway?

Great cities were built this way. If every subway extension were based on the TTC ridership model, London, NYC, Paris wouldn't have a fraction of those subway extensions and stations.

I get the scarcity of available funds but we have a federal government willing to pick up 50% of the tab of any transit infrastructure projects that are shovel ready, giving much needed relief to both municipal and provincial entities. BTW, those 2 entities are having the "adult" talk that transit isn't free and revenue tools are around the corner.

Let's make Toronto great and world class. I was in London and the notion that going to one part of town to the other taking forever is utterly unacceptable. It's utterly shameful that Scarborough and nothern Etobicoke have horrendous travel time to reach their work place. That's not world class.

Let's just build the DRL Long, complete Eglinton east and West then Sheppard once and for all.

LRT on the waterfront, Jane, Islington, Lawrence West, Wilson/York Mills, Dufferin and Steeles.
Click to expand...

How did Chicago manage to screw up even worse than Toronto? Which line in Chicago are you talking about?
 
11th said:
Probably talking about the pink line (17,000 weekday), or maybe orange (29,000 weekday). From this pdf report from CTA.
Definitely not the red, blue (O'Hare branch), or brown lines.
Click to expand...

With the CTA's Orange line having headways on Sundays of 12 minutes, compared with the TTC's Line 4 Sheppard with headways of 5 minutes, it can be expected.
 
11th said:
Probably talking about the pink line (17,000 weekday), or maybe orange (29,000 weekday). From this pdf report from CTA.
Click to expand...

Both those lines are elevated. You don't have to have such high ridership to justify elevated construction because it costs less. We'd probably have better ridership since even the Scarborough RT dwarfs those numbers at about 40,000 per weekday.
 
Sheppard subway extension will not happen until after both the DRL / Don Mills subway and the Yonge North subway are funded and are under construction.

DRL / Don Mills is essential to keep Yonge functional, and will have much higher ridership than Sheppard.

Yonge North is not as critical as DRL / Don Mills, but it too will have higher ridership than Sheppard, as well as higher level of political support; two municipalities are interested.

If Sheppard does not get its LRT now, its turn for something higher-order will probably come in 20 years or so. And that's not necessarily a very bad thing; Sheppard can function for a while with enhanced express bus service but no major capital investments.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Are the headways low because the demand doesn't exist, or does the demand not exist because headways are low?
Click to expand...

The yellow line is a one-stop line in the north end with transfer to the main route - inviting some interesting comparisons to the SRT.

The low volumes on the Green South and Purple lines is a function of demographics and relatively low density en route. And maybe having been built too close to the Red and Blue routes. I'm not sure that improved headways would help any.

Overall, I would not call any of it 'screwed up'.

- Paul
 
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