kEiThZ
Superstar
What's cheaper? Elevating Sheppard the whole way or simply converting the subway to LRT? And this has to be studied all the way till the zoo. The last proposal to terminate at Morningside is boneheaded.
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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Why? Ridership doesn't support terminating further east than Morningside. Bus service is more than adequate.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Have you ever taken the bus past Morningside?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Have you ever taken a bus past Morningside? I mean, really, the zoo?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I wouldn't even take the subway east of McCowan.
robmausser
Senior Member
You should never look at what is cheaper, but what adds the most value for your money.
What influence on ridership, speed, number of transfers (specifically the one at Don Mills) connections, beautification of the area etc does LRT vs Elevating the subway have?
You need to chart all this out with a cost to benefit ratio and compare the end net results.
Sure, horses with carts would be even cheaper than LRT, but its significantly worse.
kEiThZ
Superstar
This is the exact line of thinking that lost the fight on the Scarborough LRT. It's not always about ridership. Especially when we're talking an incremental extension of 3 km of LRT (or 4km till the zoo).
kEiThZ
Superstar
If it's a subway, it won't go east of McCowan. But if it's LRT, it's boneheaded to be running buses for 3 km of Sheppard....
kEiThZ
Superstar
I live in Malvern. And yes, I've taken the Sheppard bus past Morningside. How's the buildform any different east of Morningside, than west of morningside? Compare Neilson-Morningside. And tell me how Morningside-Meadowvale is worse. Terminating at Morningside is as illogical as terminating the SLRT at Sheppard was.
Alternatively, we can keep Sheppard a subway, and just build bus lanes the rest of the way. And that's what will happen if LRT isn't done right....
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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The original sheppard LRT plan went to Dean Park and Meadowvale Road.
The way I see it there are several options here:
Elevated Sheppard to STC and Scarborough to STC
Elevated Sheppard and Elevated Scarborough
Elevated Sheppard and Elevated Scarborough to McCowan and Sheppard. Create a new station there.
I think the subway should terminate at STC, just for convenience sake.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Something that seems to forgotten in these parts. The cut to Morningside came along with the SLRT cut to Sheppard/Progress. Both cuts made LRT less attractive. A converted Sheppard subway with LRT running till Dean Park (I'd say the extra 1km till the zoo) is a very attractive and sellable plan. Add in spurs for McCowan (till STC) and Malvern (up Neilson, or the Progress Hydro Corridor). Far more attractive than a subway.
denfromoakvillemilton
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They should just complete the subway. It's over. Any talk of LRT will lead to the same battle we have had for 3 years.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I wouldn't worry about this so much. Eglinton Crosstown will be in service in 2021. People will have a good idea of what an LRT Crosstown will look like for the north.
Also, conversion of the subway will neuter the the argument that Scarborough is getting a second tier service.
11th
Senior Member
That's why if line 4 is extended (underground or elevated), it should at least go to Agincourt. It'll rid of many of those "one stop transfer" nonsense. I'm sure RER on Stouffville will be built way sooner than DRL. Those going to downtown from east of Kennedy will transfer onto Stouffville.
Palma
Senior Member
paying how?