Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Coolibop]

Sorry on what page do we see the options for sheppard east. I keep seeing reference to numbers and letters but where do we see it.

The survey is online now, and they are asking people's preferences for individual station locations.

Survey link here: https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projec...ts/sheppard-extension-consultations-june-2024

The list includes stations which do not appear in any of the concepts.

Brimley station which appears in some concepts is the most likely to be dropped. Consumers is less likely, but nothing is final.

As for stations they solicit feedback on that are not on the concept maps:

Pharmacy - not happening
Palmdale - not happening
Bay Mills/Aragon - not happening
Birchmount - not happening
Midland - not at all likely, as it would dictate that the box for Kennedy be on the east side, which is not what is envisioned.
Brownspring - not happening

This is throw people a 'we care/are listening bone' There is some potential to shift the exact location of some station boxes such that some of these streets could be made quite close to the proposed stations, but not at them.

 

[turini2]

Why not just transfer from line 4 to line 1 north a stop? Single seat trips are not that important.

Yep, interlining is overrated - if lines are frequent and transfers are easy, of course.

 

[allengeorge]

Sorry on what page do we see the options for sheppard east. I keep seeing reference to numbers and letters but where do we see it.

Also:

Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

That would be a huge waste of money. Alas, we shall be saddled with Mel Lastman's abortion of a transit line for the rest of time. We should seek to spend as little on it as we can possibly get away with, and job number 1 would be to avoid changing the specifications of the rolling stock for...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

2B would be the best option if you were to believe the original mission of this line, which was to connect NYCC and STC.

I am warming up to three, although the western extension should be a part of that as well.

 

[afransen]

Yep, interlining is overrated - if lines are frequent and transfers are easy, of course.

Avoiding unnecessary 1 stop double transfers is nice, however. Each transfer adds minutes to a trip under ideal circumstances, and friction.

 

[T3G]

Spending a few hundred millions of dollars, if not billions, to tunnel a subway one stop westward and duplicating a pre-existing corridor just to avoid a few extra minutes on one's trip sounds obscene. Public transit isn't supposed to cater to every single fringe use case, sometimes you have to accept some degree of inconvenience. Is there no point at which the subway buffs say enough is enough and leave some money in the budget for other things?

 

[afransen]

Spending a few hundred millions of dollars, if not billions, to tunnel a subway one stop westward and duplicating a pre-existing corridor just to avoid a few extra minutes on one's trip sounds obscene. Public transit isn't supposed to cater to every single fringe use case, sometimes you have to accept some degree of inconvenience. Is there no point at which the subway buffs say enough is enough and leave some money in the budget for other things?

It will seem substantially less obscene when it becomes clear that GO + subway is a unified network. You maximize network effects by making interchanges convenient and fast to use.

I highly doubt it would cost billions. Remember, we're talking mixed grade. If the plan includes providing for elevated westward extension, surfacing around Sheppard West could make the extension to Downsview manageable from a cost standpoint. The other option to enable interchange with the Barrie Line would be to add an infill station further south in the Downsview lands and have Line 4 intercept that station. All of this could/should be considered in the context of where an eventual Line 4 westward extension would go. Along Wilson to Etobicoke North GO and Pearson? It seems like these conversations, if they happen at all, are had in secret in the bowels of the government. I think it would be appropriate for regional transportation plans to contemplate how various lines could be extended to inform land use planning, protecting ROWs, etc. without necessarily committing to a delivery timeline or exact design.

 

[T3G]

I am not aware of what definition of a transit network requires duplicating existing infrastructure just to avoid a transfer. Fare integration + frequent service sounds like it's enough of a network to me, without ensuring that no one ever has to change trains for any reason.

 

[NIV]

I am not aware of what definition of a transit network requires duplicating existing infrastructure just to avoid a transfer. Fare integration + frequent service sounds like it's enough of a network to me, without ensuring that no one ever has to change trains for any reason.

Not duplicating infrastructure but taking advantage of exiting infrastructure/stations at both ends to eliminate transfers. Merging with the existing Downsview tunnel in the west or looping south into the new McCowan/Sheppard station in the east and going south to STC as has been suggested.

 

[afransen]

Not duplicating infrastructure but taking advantage of exiting infrastructure/stations at both ends to eliminate transfers. Merging with the existing Downsview tunnel in the west or looping south into the new McCowan/Sheppard station in the east and going south to STC as has been suggested.

I'm not sure interlining is necessarily a great idea.

Realistically, our subway projects have ballooned in cost due to large, deep mined stations. These cost upwards of half a billion dollar each. Above ground stations, guideways and even tunnel are not terribly expensive.

Even if we don't build it now, an interchange between the Barrie Line and Line 4 should be planned/protected for eventual construction.

All the same arguments for replacing the SRT with the Line 2 extension to STC apply. I'd say making long distance trips transfer twice in about a km is less than ideal. But network planning is not really Toronto's forte.

 

[T3G]

All the same arguments for replacing the SRT with the Line 2 extension to STC apply.

That it was a load of bunk?

 

[ARG1]

That it was a load of bunk?

Keep telling yourself that

 

[T3G]

No you're right, spending more money to serve less people is cool and good

 

[micheal_can]

Not duplicating infrastructure but taking advantage of exiting infrastructure/stations at both ends to eliminate transfers. Merging with the existing Downsview tunnel in the west or looping south into the new McCowan/Sheppard station in the east and going south to STC as has been suggested.

Unless there is a separate platform at the station, this will cause way to much confusion for riders. And, once a future westward expansion of line 4 is needed, what then?

 

[Rainforest]

I don't believe the western segment will be extended from Sheppard West to Downsview GO just to avoid the extra transfer. Although that would look good on the map, the actual number of transfers between the Barry GO service and the subway Line 4 will not be that large. And those who need to transfer between those two lines, will do so almost as easily using Line 1.

On the other hand, if Line 4 gets another western extension at some point in the future - to Jane, Kipling, or even Pearson - then it might make sense to route it north-west from Sheppard West, before turning south-west to hit Keele & Sheppard. Then we might get a Line 4 station about 100 m south of the Downsview GO platform, and a direct connection.