Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[anb]

I don't believe the western segment will be extended from Sheppard West to Downsview GO just to avoid the extra transfer. Although that would look good on the map, the actual number of transfers between the Barry GO service and the subway Line 4 will not be that large. And those who need to transfer between those two lines, will do so almost as easily using Line 1.

On the other hand, if Line 4 gets another western extension at some point in the future - to Jane, Kipling, or even Pearson - then it might make sense to route it north-west from Sheppard West, before turning south-west to hit Keele & Sheppard. Then we might get a Line 4 station about 100 m south of the Downsview GO platform, and a direct connection.

This might seem too unrealistic, but I've always wanted Sheppard to extend west to Sheppard West, head south to Wilson, then curve to go down Dufferin all the way down to Exhibition. Maybe going down Keele could be an alternative, but Dufferin is where its at when it comes to ridership and overcrowing.

 

[dougtoronto]

Spending a few hundred millions of dollars, if not billions, to tunnel a subway one stop westward and duplicating a pre-existing corridor just to avoid a few extra minutes on one's trip sounds obscene. Public transit isn't supposed to cater to every single fringe use case, sometimes you have to accept some degree of inconvenience. Is there no point at which the subway buffs say enough is enough and leave some money in the budget for other things?

Why would we need to tunnel between Sheppard West and Downsview Park, when that area is perfectly suited for elevated or even at-grade configurations? If we are going to be reimagining all of Downsview Park through redevelopment, we can try to integrate as much seamless transit as possible, especially when the area is already being torn up and redone.

 

[micheal_can]

Why would we need to tunnel between Sheppard West and Downsview Park, when that area is perfectly suited for elevated or even at-grade configurations? If we are going to be reimagining all of Downsview Park through redevelopment, we can try to integrate as much seamless transit as possible, especially when the area is already being torn up and redone.

Would the cost savings be worth the challenges of having the line resurface?

 

[NIV]

I like the idea of interlining and taking advantage of existing stations on either end. However using new technologies, Automatic train control and hopefully driverless trains on the Sheppard line could make this difficult.

 

[Aplus23]

If this line is going to mostly elevated/at grade, that bodes well for speed/timeframe in construction.

 

[afransen]

Would the cost savings be worth the challenges of having the line resurface?

ML is abundantly telegraphing that this line will be above ground to a significant degree. They use the phrase 'mixed grade'.

If this line is going to mostly elevated/at grade, that bodes well for speed/timeframe in construction.

Interesting that they talk a lot about 'mixed grade' but are not choosing to discuss what they are thinking that means for options being considered.

 

[Aplus23]

ML is abundantly telegraphing that this line will be above ground to a significant degree. They use the phrase 'mixed grade'.


Interesting that they talk a lot about 'mixed grade' but are not choosing to discuss what they are thinking that means for options being considered.

Yeah that is interesting, I'm not sure what that is supposed to look like. They're not going to have this running down the middle of Sheppard like a LRT.

 

[gwimmer]

Why would we need to tunnel between Sheppard West and Downsview Park, when that area is perfectly suited for elevated or even at-grade configurations? If we are going to be reimagining all of Downsview Park through redevelopment, we can try to integrate as much seamless transit as possible, especially when the area is already being torn up and redone.

They will already need to extend the subway westward from Sheppard West and surface thereafter to connect to Wilson yard. At this point a surface connection to Downsview Station and GO would make some sense and given the massive future redevelopment plans set for this area.

 

[81-717]

On the other hand, if Line 4 gets another western extension at some point in the future - to Jane, Kipling, or even Pearson

Kipling/Sheppard would certainly be an interesting destination

Why would we need to tunnel between Sheppard West and Downsview Park, when that area is perfectly suited for elevated or even at-grade configurations?

ML is abundantly telegraphing that this line will be above ground to a significant degree. They use the phrase 'mixed grade'.

Is the existing Sheppard West station protected for future line 4 platforms to be built above the existing platforms, or at ground level (as opposed to having to tunnel below it, like the OL)? I'm not sure how a subway ROW would fit in at/above grade along Sheppard west of Bathurst though.

 

[Cobra]

This might seem too unrealistic, but I've always wanted Sheppard to extend west to Sheppard West, head south to Wilson, then curve to go down Dufferin all the way down to Exhibition. Maybe going down Keele could be an alternative, but Dufferin is where its at when it comes to ridership and overcrowing.

I like the part going south to Wilson but not down to Exhibition

1. Bathurst/Sheppard
2. Sheppard West
3. Infill station in Downsview Park redevelopment area
4. Keele/Wilson - Humber River Hospital
5. Jane/Wilson
6. South to Weston GO/Lawrence West

 

[Rainforest]

Kipling/Sheppard would certainly be an interesting destination

Indeed, it would be hard to cross the Humber valley where Sheppard Ave ends at Weston Rd.

But, the line can swing down to Wilson and further to the 401 corridor, using the strip between Hwy 400 and the CP line. Once joined the 401 corridor, the subway would cross Humber using a new bridge adjacent to the 401 bridges. [This is about some later phase, certainly not part of the current project.]

Is the existing Sheppard West station protected for future line 4 platforms to be built above the existing platforms, or at ground level (as opposed to having to tunnel below it, like the OL)? I'm not sure how a subway ROW would fit in at/above grade along Sheppard west of Bathurst though.

It will probably cross the West Don valley using a new bridge, but below the road surface level. Then, will approach Sheppard West in a shallow tunnel or trench.

Escalators at the existing Sheppard West station are surprisingly deep, thus there might be enough room on top of it to place the Line 4 station. Not sure though whether Line 4 will conflict with the existing concourse.

 

[dowlingm]

Intercepting the CP MacTier would provide another potential interchange for GO Bolton but getting there is a decent distance through yellowbelt.

 

[81-717]

Escalators at the existing Sheppard West station are surprisingly deep, thus there might be enough room on top of it to place the Line 4 station. Not sure though whether Line 4 will conflict with the existing concourse.

True, given that the concourse is a level between the platforms & the street, perhaps the line 4 platforms can be roughed in there, much like at Sheppard/Yonge, where the faregates lead directly to the line 4 platforms. But the track level would still need to be somewhat below the floor level, and I'm not sure if there's room for that without having to raise the floor level (not to mention reinforcing to handle the weight of trains).

 

[ben.thebean1]

Why not just transfer from line 4 to line 1 north a stop? Single seat trips are not that important.

If we're going to go this route (no pun intended), my TTC fantasy would have it extend south through the Downsview project, continuing west along Wilson and somehow ending up terminating at Pearson or maybe one more stop to the international Centre/Malton.

 

[Sunnyside]

If we're going to go this route (no pun intended), my TTC fantasy would have it extend south through the Downsview project, continuing west along Wilson and somehow ending up terminating at Pearson or maybe one more stop to the international Centre/Malton.

Like with all subway projects, there’s always the possibility to go further. The case might not exist today, but there’s always a “relative best option”.

As you’ve said, Wilson, imo, is that best option as it’s equidistant from both Finch and Eglinton; E/W demand will grow the greatest wherever transferring N/S to Line 5/6 is hardest. Lots of services from Rexdale also coalesce on Wilson, with ridership today being quite ‘impressive’ already.

Don’t forget the interest in a new GO Station at Wilson on the Barrie Line to serve the redevelopment. With Line 4 going there too, it would create a triangle of interchanges for Lines 1, 4, and Barrie GO. Line 4 would also be easier to extend if done at the same time as the redevelopment, but that’s probably too far off.

Weston GO, Pearson, and Dufferin are all good termini options, but it’s too early to say. The need/urgency will depend on how demand grows or shrinks along Lawrence, Wilson, Dufferin (N), Keele (N) Albion rd, Weston Rd, and so on due to Lines 5, 6, and GO Expansion. I think it will drive ridership up slightly on Wilson as people try to connect to other services south/west, but only time will tell. Transit demand in general is high in this part of the city and current/recent projects only seem to graze it.