Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[Rainforest]

What would stops look like,

Consumers / VP / Warden / Kennedy/Go / McCowan ??

Obviously I would like it to go to Markham or Morningside, but I doubt that happens.

I can also see them bypassing McCowan and just going to STC after Kennedy

Definitely Consumers / VP / Warden.

After that, not sure. There are several good locations: Birchmount, Agincourt Mall, Kennedy, Agincourt GO, Midland, but all those are spaced ~ 400 m apart. Certainly they will skip some of them, or combine (say, a western end of a station is 25 m from Agincourt GO, and the eastern end is 25 m from the Midland intersection). The exact number of stations and their locations depend on what they choose.

Brimley may or may not get a station. And finally, McCowan or STC, dependent on how they prefer to connect to Line 2.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Sheppard East has some of the highest development potentials in all of Toronto. If the government is serious about housing, they would build a subway quickly and let the condo towers rise. It might even attract some businesses away from places like Mississauga to the consumers road business park.

Corporate taxes will keep those companies at their airport.

 

[UD2]

Definitely Consumers / VP / Warden.

After that, not sure. There are several good locations: Birchmount, Agincourt Mall, Kennedy, Agincourt GO, Midland, but all those are spaced ~ 400 m apart. Certainly they will skip some of them, or combine (say, a western end of a station is 25 m from Agincourt GO, and the eastern end is 25 m from the Midland intersection). The exact number of stations and their locations depend on what they choose.

Brimley may or may not get a station. And finally, McCowan or STC, dependent on how they prefer to connect to Line 2.

Consumers and VP will only get one station. It makes no sense to have a consumers station when the majority of the business park is not in comfortable walking distance. More likely a shuttle bus doing loops from the station.

Agincourt GO and Kennedy will also share one as well. You can just about to fit a station in between the distance from Kennedy on the West to the Go tracks on the east.

If the extension happens, I suspect it will be Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, McCowan. And if this government builds it, it will almost certainly climb out of the ground in between Yorkland and Victoria Park and be built on an elevated viaduct.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Consumers was always included in the planning back when the EA was done. There were even discussion about moving the station closer to the middle of the zone. I'm not sure how much documentation of that remains, but the illustration below is roughly what I can recall. It's certainly true that the trend now is to have fewer stations given the astronomical increases in construction cost.

 

[GenerationW]

Cost would be less of an issue if we did elevated. And Sheppard East is plenty wide enough for a moderate elevated structure. Hell, losing some lanes and reduced width for remaining lanes would make the street more welcoming for pedestrians.

I wonder if this would go beyond McCowan if they chose to go elevated east of VP.

 

[drum118]

Consumers was always included in the planning back when the EA was done. There were even discussion about moving the station closer to the middle of the zone. I'm not sure how much documentation of that remains, but the illustration below is roughly what I can recall. It's certainly true that the trend now is to have fewer stations given the astronomical increases in construction cost.

View attachment 458340

Consumers and VP will only get one station. It makes no sense to have a consumers station when the majority of the business park is not in comfortable walking distance. More likely a shuttle bus doing loops from the station.

Agincourt GO and Kennedy will also share one as well. You can just about to fit a station in between the distance from Kennedy on the West to the Go tracks on the east.

If the extension happens, I suspect it will be Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, McCowan. And if this government builds it, it will almost certainly climb out of the ground in between Yorkland and Victoria Park and be built on an elevated viaduct.

Consumers and Victoria Park were to have station on Sheppard using LRT and never heard of Consumers been place as the map shows.

Since this is now an ML project, stations will be shifted and eliminated to reduce the cost. Since Victoria Park is an transit route, it will have a station with the box most likely on the west side of VP with an exit close to Consumers.

As for Kennedy and Agincourt, again the box will be on the east side of Kennedy with an exit close to Agincourt. This means longer walking distance in place of an LRT stops.

As for being elevated, I don't see that happen even though the line would open years sooner than tunneling. To deal with CP corridor, you have to be very high to get over it or go under it as well the GO Line and why I see tunneling being the option for the line.

The option for having the subway converted to an LRT saw a portal just west of Consumers, but was drop when the subway was to stop at Consumers underground with the LRT starting there on top of it..

TTC will have to have bus service to service Yorkland and Consumers as well the current route since stations will be beyond the 500 meter distance between LRT stops to the point some riders will be doing 2000m plus walks to get to a subway station.

You need more than Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, McCowan stations as you are defeating the needs of getting ppl out of the car and using transit instead if you do those stations. This what you get for using the wrong technology to please a few ppl at a huge cost and taking years longer than the right one.

In 14 years since the Sheppard LRT was supposed to happen, very few projects have been built on Sheppard with a few now happening. There are plans for a number of site that have come and gone over the years while other sites has seen development.

The subway beyond McCown is a pure waste of money and resources considering the current plan is over kill now.

 

[T3G]

Where, in that post, do you see anyone dissing Scarborough?

 

[sixrings]

You could edit your original post, so the rest of us, don't read your post, and then go back to read Dave's post to see what we were missing.

I’m just going to ignore this thread to the best of my ability. I clearly don’t agree with this extension based on how few transit dollars we have. And if people want to fight for it. Go ahead.

Before I fully go. I am not up to date with what trains the OL use. Could the line not be converted to those trains. I only ask because I know the city didn’t want to have rt trains lrt trains and subways. But is that not what we have now. So would that not be any solution? I’m not against Scarborough getting transit. I just don’t understand why every piece of infrastructure we build has to be underground and then we complain about the costs, the construction speed and how few kms we actually serve considering the size of our city.

 

[ARG1]

I’m just going to ignore this thread to the best of my ability. I clearly don’t agree with this extension based on how few transit dollars we have. And if people want to fight for it. Go ahead.

Before I fully go. I am not up to date with what trains the OL use. Could the line not be converted to those trains. I only ask because I know the city didn’t want to have rt trains lrt trains and subways. But is that not what we have now. So would that not be any solution? I’m not against Scarborough getting transit. I just don’t understand why every piece of infrastructure we build has to be underground and then we complain about the costs, the construction speed and how few kms we actually serve considering the size of our city.

The Ontario Line will be using Hitachi trains similar to the driverless fleet they offer in Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Rail_Italy_Driverless_Metro

As for whether or not they should use it, the reason why the Ontario Line is using them is because they're required to make the sharper curves and grades present in various sections of the Ontario Line, namely the section ascending to the rail corridor near Corktown. Meanwhile, Sheppard Avenue is perfectly straight, and TRs are more than likely perfectly capable of making any grade required to elevate the line east of VP. Furthermore, using TRs will allow Sheppard to make use of Wilson Yard if and when the western extension to Downsview happens, potentially saving money on building a new MSF, using OL trains they don't have that option. Finally, if we want to use OL trains, we would have to close down the line for a couple of months to regauge the existing line (assuming that there isn't a problem with putting a catenary in the existing tunnels).

In short, it can be done, but I don't really see a reason to do so. We can have a proper elevated lines using TRs no problem.

 

[T3G]

Can Wilson even handle having more demand placed on it without significant expansion? I would think for that reason alone the idea would be a non starter.

 

[Northern Light]

Can Wilson even handle having more demand placed on it without significant expansion? I would think for that reason alone the idea would be a non starter.

Wilson can, subject to the modifications that would be made for the Sheppard connection. @smallspy probably remembers the plan in more detail than I ever knew.

Here's an aerial of Wilson:

You can see room for additional storage tracks there.

 

[nfitz]

The Ontario Line will be using Hitachi trains similar to the driverless fleet they offer in Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Rail_Italy_Driverless_Metro

Is that confirmed? Did we know what Hitachi unit?

Hopefully they go for the 3.05-m wide Honolulu version, and not the 2.85-m wide Italian version. Are they still planning overhead catenary - that train is often third rail?

 

[ARG1]

Is that confirmed? Did we know what Hitachi unit?

Hopefully they go for the 3.05-m wide Honolulu version, and not the 2.85-m wide Italian version. Are they still planning overhead catenary - that train is often third rail.

We don't know exactly, all we know is that its Hitachi making them, and we have a few renders of the trains. Based on what Metrolinx has said, they are aiming for 3m wide trains, so I guess Honolulu would be a more apt example.

 

[Northern Light]

We don't know exactly, all we know is that its Hitachi making them, and we have a few renders of the trains. Based on what Metrolinx has said, they are aiming for 3m wide trains, so I guess Honolulu would be a more apt example.

Is there something you would like to know about them; no promises, but I may be able to find out. I know I asked a few questions of my source on the project and was able to get some specific answers.

 

[chinesehorse]

Consumers was always included in the planning back when the EA was done. There were even discussion about moving the station closer to the middle of the zone. I'm not sure how much documentation of that remains, but the illustration below is roughly what I can recall. It's certainly true that the trend now is to have fewer stations given the astronomical increases in construction cost.

View attachment 458340

These were the studied alignments - your memory was spot on, with the alignment and station at Yorkland/Consumers selected as the recommended layout.

From the Sheppard Subway Environmental Assessment (1992)