Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[chinesehorse]

Definitely Consumers / VP / Warden.

After that, not sure. There are several good locations: Birchmount, Agincourt Mall, Kennedy, Agincourt GO, Midland, but all those are spaced ~ 400 m apart. Certainly they will skip some of them, or combine (say, a western end of a station is 25 m from Agincourt GO, and the eastern end is 25 m from the Midland intersection). The exact number of stations and their locations depend on what they choose.

Brimley may or may not get a station. And finally, McCowan or STC, dependent on how they prefer to connect to Line 2.

Consumers and Victoria Park were to have station on Sheppard using LRT and never heard of Consumers been place as the map shows.

Since this is now an ML project, stations will be shifted and eliminated to reduce the cost. Since Victoria Park is an transit route, it will have a station with the box most likely on the west side of VP with an exit close to Consumers.

As for Kennedy and Agincourt, again the box will be on the east side of Kennedy with an exit close to Agincourt. This means longer walking distance in place of an LRT stops.

As for being elevated, I don't see that happen even though the line would open years sooner than tunneling. To deal with CP corridor, you have to be very high to get over it or go under it as well the GO Line and why I see tunneling being the option for the line.

The option for having the subway converted to an LRT saw a portal just west of Consumers, but was drop when the subway was to stop at Consumers underground with the LRT starting there on top of it..

TTC will have to have bus service to service Yorkland and Consumers as well the current route since stations will be beyond the 500 meter distance between LRT stops to the point some riders will be doing 2000m plus walks to get to a subway station.

You need more than Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, McCowan stations as you are defeating the needs of getting ppl out of the car and using transit instead if you do those stations. This what you get for using the wrong technology to please a few ppl at a huge cost and taking years longer than the right one.

In 14 years since the Sheppard LRT was supposed to happen, very few projects have been built on Sheppard with a few now happening. There are plans for a number of site that have come and gone over the years while other sites has seen development.

The subway beyond McCown is a pure waste of money and resources considering the current plan is over kill now.

The initial business case for the Ontario Line mentions that it assumes a Sheppard East subway extension with six stations, which Metrolinx doesn't go into details about. It'll likely be the same six analyzed in the original Sheppard Subway environmental assessment's McCowan alignment (which wasn't the recommended alignment back then, but is almost definitely the realistic alignment today because of the Line 2 East Extension to Sheppard/McCowan).

So likely stations at Consumers, Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, Midland, and Sheppard/McCowan.

 

[nfitz]

So likely stations at Consumers, Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, Midland, and Sheppard/McCowan.

That makes sense - and thanks for digging that out (I've never found that document!)

I'd think these days, a station well connected to Agincourt GO would be a must.

 

[Rainforest]

That makes sense - and thanks for digging that out (I've never found that document!)

I'd think these days, a station well connected to Agincourt GO would be a must.

Thought about that, too. They might decide to place the "Kennedy" station east of the West Highland Creek riverbed, then it will be within 100 m from the Agincourt GO platform. The GO parking lot north of Sheppard could then be converted to a small bus terminal, and the Kennedy buses would divert there using Sheppard and Reidmount or Cadwell and Reidmount.

Then the Midland intersection will be a bit too close to the "Kennedy" station, and the next subway station is more likely to be placed between Brimley and the CP bridge. That would protect a connection to the future GO Peterborough / GO Midtown station, or even HSR, if any of those are ever built.

 

[nfitz]

They might decide to place the "Kennedy" station east of the West Highland Creek riverbed, then it will be within 100 m from the Agincourt GO platform.

That would work - particularly if they had the escalators/stairs going up from the end of the platform. Certainly shorter than the distance between TTC Kipling and the Kipling GO Bus terminal!

 

[Bordercollie]

The problem with population density is zoning. Until recently you couldn't have mixed zoning. Residential is residential. Commerical is commercial. So to go to grocery store or medical clinic you need to travel to the commercial area. Also each lot had to be a certain size and it makes the most amount of money for builders to build the biggest house possible on one lot.

Recently they have changed some zoning laws so that you build commercial in residential zones. This is why you see stores on then first floor of condos and townhomes, before you couldn't do that.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Should be extended in an express like fashion to the Lakeshore Line to provide the only uptown commuter rail service.

 

[T3G]

Should be extended in an express like fashion to the Lakeshore Line to provide the only uptown commuter rail service.

Can you expand on this plan? I am profoundly confused by how you came by it. Is there a latent commuter destination somewhere along Sheppard?

 

[Undead]

He meant a rapid east-west connection across the top of the city as a transit alternative to the 401. Which we are indeed sorely lacking. The GO ALRT and Midtown GO proposals would have had a similar effect.

Speaking of the 401, that was a great alignment for a regional line across the region. But oh well.

 

[T3G]

He meant a rapid east-west connection across the top of the city as a transit alternative to the 401. Which we are indeed sorely lacking. The GO ALRT and Midtown GO proposals would have had a similar effect.

Speaking of the 401, that was a great alignment for a regional line across the region. But oh well.

I'm not sure Sheppard would be the right way to go about it, though, surely? If people are bound for downtown, and the proposed line would connect to the Lakeshore line anyway, I have trouble believing anyone on the eastern portions of the line would choose to go to Yonge and transfer onto the crowded, and slower, Yonge line instead of connecting to the Lakeshore line.

The Midtown GO corridor is a much more sensible proposal because it isn't that far from the economic centre of the city. The thought of repurposing the Sheppard line for the job strikes me as being completely unworkable. I don't think Yonge and Sheppard is enough of a destination to make it in any way compete with downtown.

 

[Undead]

I don't think a Sheppard crosstown line would be meant for getting people to Sheppard Yonge. Just like ending the 401 at Yonge would be useless, any hypothetical Sheppard crosstown would need to extend much further west.

Like the 401 collector and express, a potential Sheppard line could have local and express service.

One to bring people to and from the suburban arterials where they would board local buses; the other with much fewer stops to get people quickly across the city with a few key stops (STC, Fairview, Sheppard Yonge, Yorkdale, Pearson).

To be clear, I think this proposal is wildly unrealistic given our crazy construction costs and politics.

 

[nfitz]

He meant a rapid east-west connection across the top of the city as a transit alternative to the 401. Which we are indeed sorely lacking. The GO ALRT and Midtown GO proposals would have had a similar effect.

The Ontario line would fill that hole if they were to build it.

 

[T3G]

I don't think a Sheppard crosstown line would be meant for getting people to Sheppard Yonge. Just like ending the 401 at Yonge would be useless, any hypothetical Sheppard crosstown would need to extend much further west.

Like the 401 collector and express, a potential Sheppard line could have local and express service.

One to bring people to and from the suburban arterials where they would board local buses; the other with much fewer stops to get people quickly across the city with a few key stops (STC, Fairview, Sheppard Yonge, Yorkdale, Pearson).

To be clear, I think this proposal is wildly unrealistic given our crazy construction costs and politics.

Well, the post referred to it being a "commuter rail service", and spacing out the stops accordingly, so that's why I latched on to the idea of the line going to some kind of destination that justifies it.

Crosstown lines are very useful, I'll not deny that. But I think it would be a stretch and a half to call them a "commuter rail service", and even more so when they're actually terminating at a real life commuter rail line. And for the expense of expanding the Sheppard line considerably, I would hope there would be a decent selection of stations to fulfill local demand, rather than commuter rail spacing, otherwise the project would completely lose any merit it (may) have.

 

[blacksquirrels]

The initial business case for the Ontario Line mentions that it assumes a Sheppard East subway extension with six stations, which Metrolinx doesn't go into details about. It'll likely be the same six analyzed in the original Sheppard Subway environmental assessment's McCowan alignment (which wasn't the recommended alignment back then, but is almost definitely the realistic alignment today because of the Line 2 East Extension to Sheppard/McCowan).

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So likely stations at Consumers, Victoria Park, Warden, Kennedy, Midland, and Sheppard/McCowan.

is it still possible to combine Lines 2 and 4 into one U-shape line? it seems more logical to do so if they're extending line 4 east.

then Toronto would just have to massive heavy rail lines, while the remaining lines would be light metro & or light rail.

 

[nfitz]

is it still possible to combine Lines 2 and 4 into one U-shape line? it seems more logical to do so if they're extending line 4 east.

No, that's out now, as they've already started building the station box, and have already launched the TBMs from Sheppard East station. I suppose they could build a huge curve stretching way north - but they won't' it was never the plan.

It's a shame though, that they didn't angle both lines northeast/southwest at Sheppard East, to facilitate simple transfers like at St. George (or even like Lionel-Groulx and Snowdon in Montreal - which is a brilliant design).

 

[Sunnyside]

Should be extended in an express like fashion to the Lakeshore Line to provide the only uptown commuter rail service.

Well, that’s already in the plans in the form of a 407-427-403 “Regional LRT” for 2051. I like that plan quite a bit, as it’d be the circumferential cherry on top that’s been on the books for decades (GO-Urban, GO-ALRT, etc).

For essentially fantasy talk: I’m not so sure the 407 LRT makes a crosstown iteration of Line 4 redundant, but certainly pushes it off, as extending beyond Sheppard West and Sheppard-McCowan/STC is questionable. The discussion to bring Line 4 on as Toronto’s mirror to the 407 LRT can be had if we ever contemplate bringing Line 4 to Pearson someday. There are plenty of challenges with that, though.