Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[afransen]

Maybe it would make sense to have LRT continue down Sheppard past McCowan if the subway runs elevated that far and then down to STC. But for the cost differential (LRT running $80-$100M/km vs $200M/km for elevated light metro), maybe a branch would make sense to continue on Sheppard.

 

[asher__jo]

The most practical situation in my opinion is to extend the line, elevating new segments wherever possible. Also Changing rolling stock to light metro to make elevated structures less expensive. To save money they could be ordered at the custom TTC gauge to prevent having to change existing alignment.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The most practical situation in my opinion is to extend the line, elevating new segments wherever possible. Also Changing rolling stock to light metro to make elevated structures less expensive. To save money they could be ordered at the custom TTC gauge to prevent having to change existing alignment.

I suspect that the real limiting factor on a light metro conversion would be the SRT guideway.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well its inevitable that we will have a Sheppard Line of some sort in the future, the question really always how? First it was a subway, then it was an LRT, and now its shifting to being a subway again. Unfortunately under the old Liberal plans, what this meant was a Sheppard LRT that went all the way to Malvern, and a 1 stop Scarborough Extension that looked like a stub, and just begging to meet up with the Sheppard LRT. With an eastern extension of the Sheppard Subway, its extremely likely that long term, the next step would be a further extension East, so a transfer hub does make some modicum of sense there.

The liberal plan map for reference: https://media.blogto.com/uploads/20....jpg?cmd=resize&quality=70&w=1400&height=2500
(note, this was an extremely long term plan and nothing was really set in stone, but this was the general direction things were being taken)

Fair enough, and that makes sense. I would submit though one of the most expensive parts of this project won't be the tunnelling but the terminal station which of course will have to have all the bells and whistles.

I still think crossing progress and Agincourt, and eliminating a transfer is a better idea.

 

[nfitz]

I still think crossing progress and Agincourt, and eliminating a transfer is a better idea.

Extending Sheppard subway is probably a better idea than burying the Eglinton West LRT. There's some logic to connecting Yonge to Sheppard West, simply in terms of network redundancy. In the east, even an LRT if going to daylight at Consumers Road. At a minimum, I'd think extending the subway to Consumers or Victoria Park, to move the bottleneck east of the 404/DVP makes sense ... and keeping the line under Victoria Park also seems sensible.

Here's a thought, extend it to Birchmount, and then curve south (skipping Agincourt GO), and run it along the Stoufville GO tracks, replacing Line 3. Could keep surface stations at Lawrence East (or even Ellesmere) and build a new terminus on the surface at Kennedy straddling the GO tracks.

 

[Coolstar]

Extending Sheppard subway is probably a better idea than burying the Eglinton West LRT. There's some logic to connecting Yonge to Sheppard West, simply in terms of network redundancy. In the east, even an LRT if going to daylight at Consumers Road. At a minimum, I'd think extending the subway to Consumers or Victoria Park, to move the bottleneck east of the 404/DVP makes sense ... and keeping the line under Victoria Park also seems sensible.

Here's a thought, extend it to Birchmount, and then curve south (skipping Agincourt GO), and run it along the Stoufville GO tracks, replacing Line 3. Could keep surface stations at Lawrence East (or even Ellesmere) and build a new terminus on the surface at Kennedy straddling the GO tracks.

This alignment?

 

[nfitz]

This alignment?

The lower leg yes ... I'd curver a lot shallower west of Agincourt ... but yes.

Hmm, the leg to STC is interesting as well, if it could be done above ground, near the current Line 3 elevated alignment. Maybe not now, but as densification continues.

Where 's this from? Every time one has a new idea, someone else has already thought of it ...

 

[Coolstar]

The lower leg yes ... I'd curver a lot shallower west of Agincourt ... but yes.

Hmm, the leg to STC is interesting as well, if it could be done above ground, near the current Line 3 elevated alignment. Maybe not now, but as densification continues.

Where 's this from? Every time one has a new idea, someone else has already thought of it ...

I took your suggestion and made it myself.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

It's for all intents and purposes a variant of the Scarborough Y that pushes eastern extensions into a future phase and reorients the Kennedy leg.

Personally I tend to feel like the ideal at this point is to do roughly this, but in an even more minimalist version that uses the 404 and 401 rights of way to minimize tunneling. Given the level of political commitment and my inclination not to fight over it any more I'd be inclined to, if at all possible, cut the Kennedy branch and build the Scarborough extension, but terminate at STC with the SRT Malvern extension in it's place.

 

[99Messier]

This alignment?

View attachment 274412

First key point. Can this Sheppard line elevation from the existing platform fast enough to cross 404 elevated and just south of Sheppard (where there are no off-ramps. That's how you can save serious $$$. Then continue along Sheppard elevated.
2nd key point. If anyone complains about elevated, the alternative is not TBM, it is a different route that doesn't even give them a station. In this case, 401 (maybe Progress).

 

[afransen]

I don't think there is enough room between Don Mills Station and 404 to get up and over the highway, even at a pretty steep grade. Would have to tunnel under the 404 or rebuild part of the line west of Don Mills.

 

[north-of-anything]

I don't think there is enough room between Don Mills Station and 404 to get up and over the highway, even at a pretty steep grade. Would have to tunnel under the 404 or rebuild part of the line west of Don Mills.

Going over the highway is only possible if you're already nearly at grade at Don Mills, and with the existing tunnel that's just not possible. It would be much easier to surface at some point between Consumers and Warden. I don't like the idea of not having a stop at Agincourt GO either, since it would provide a much better connection between North York and Markham than the current Viva Green. I would rather have the route take the west side of Midland Avenue, where between Sheppard and Progress there is ample space between the industrial properties and the roadway for an elevated track.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Turning south later is always an option, but I'd also like to see a look taken at tunnelling under the 404 while turning south with the portal oriented north/south on the east side of the highway.

 

[afransen]

If you are tunneling under the 404, why turn south there?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The idea is that it deals with the grade issue while still maximizing use of the highway corridor. As in it gets to an elevated guideway within the highway ROW in as short a distance as possible. The alternative would, I suppose, be a portal within the Sheppard Ave ROW and following roughly Ann O'Reilly Rd to get the 401, but the TTC seems pretty committed to not putting elevated guideway in road allowances, though I wonder if the Ontario line in Thorncliffe and Flemingdon might start to change that.