Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[sixrings]

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1189535&binId=1.3378530&playlistPageNum=1

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/scarborough-subway-poll-1.4251785

So not every Scarborough resident feels the same way that subways with less stops are better than other forms of transit. If Sheppard is extended it will likely be done with very few stops because stations have become the most expensive part of subway projects. If there was a Sheppard subway that could get away with few stops it would be Sheppard west to dowsnview with one stop at Bathurst. However I am sure most, especially here, could not stomach watching north York get more stations while east of don mills gets none.

For the record although john Tory keeps assuring us that smarttrack will be the same fare as ttc I will need to see it to believe it. Also the TTC fare structure may be very different in the future with presto. With presto we may have fare by distance or even model of transit. Could be different fares for modes making smarttrack technically the same price as tic but not the current fare many are thinking

 

[Leo_Chan]

Irl acronym please

This -> Link

 

[sixrings]

This -> Link

I'd be ok with a thread poll or a real life poll. I understand that these threads are typically watched more closely by people whom it will affect more directly. So a Scarborough transit line will likely be followed more closely by Scarborough residents than outsiders. I could be wrong but that's how I typically chose which threads I read. What's closest to me or impacts me. For the record I will never use any of these lines but watch the threads because I know these decisions do impact the rest of the cities transit plans such as lakeshore west. Anyways I'm still confident that a thread poll would indicate that this is a waste of money. I'm sure a real life poll would say its a waste of money as well. Now if you are going to ask people what their fav mode of transit is, I fully erect them to pick subways number one. That doesn't ,mean that every route makes sense financially for a subway ..

 

[OneCity]

There are multiple causes of Trump being in power....."
.

You are a much better poster than me. Don't take the bait and go down this path to nowhere good and feed him anything. Just block, report and please lets all get back to discussing the Sheppard subway related material and not Donald Trump or race for heavens sake.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Either finish this thing now or face another 5 years of transit inertia. Should have never caved on the Danforth extension, but people were telling me that would be the end. I knew it was never going to be like that. The goal was always going to be both subways.

 

[sixrings]

I suppose these are old articles with old numbers. I am fully willing to read any article which shows ridership numbers that would potentially support this line before we are long gone.

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_h...t_mayor_rob_ford_doesnt_want_you_to_read.html

If you dont like the star because you feel it has a bias then how about the conservative Globe and Mail...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...torontos-sheppard-subway-line/article5402731/

I personally like this National Post article because like some I once thought that Tory would be rational... In the end its the Ford era again with promises but nothing concrete and no plans to pay for anything... (this article is just about the rising costs of subways in general and how we dont have the money to pay for them)

http://nationalpost.com/news/toront...osal/wcm/47e5814a-3c75-4ecb-814e-01d501f8c5d4

@denfromoakvillemilton I suppose you are right that we either build it or let people complain forever about it. If that is actually the options than I would prefer not to build it and use those funds to get Eglinton to the airport and Finch all the way to Yonge. This line is no different than Bramptons refusal of its own LRT line. In the end some would prefer nothing and those not willing to stand up and fight for LRT instead will get nothing.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

At the same time the Sheppard Subway was built, the 510 Spadina was also introduced. Both lines are 5 kilometres in length; both have identical ridership numbers. The differences: 510 Spadina is now overcapacity, while Sheppard operates at a fraction of its capacity. Spadina is expected to see huge gains in ridership (once we have enough LRVs to meeet demand), while Sheppard has remained stagnant for more than half a decade, even while Toronto's population booms. Spadina $150 Million and Sheppard cost $1 Billion. Sheppard connects to the failed North York Centre, while Spadina connects to the fastest growing residential and commercial districts in the country (despite minimal infrastructure investments in those areas).

I want to live in the alternate reality where that $1 Billion was spent building a Spadina subway line (mind that I'd never support building a Spadina Subway because that's a really, really dumb idea, when we could be building the DRL).

 

[sixrings]

Perhaps I was so toxic that everyone blocked me and didn't get my request for some stats and answers to my questions. On the other hand maybe the stats simply don't look great for this line and there are no good answers either. It's all quiet on the eastern front.

 

[DB9]

Conversion to LRT may indeed be necessary to resolve the Sheppard stalemate. However, in such case I hope that they will select something more advanced than the Transit City Sheppard LRT design. The conversion to low-floor is way too expensive, while the resulting line would be continuous but still too slow to serve crosstown trips well. If the can do high floor, wide stop spacing, and better grade separation where feasible, I guess the result will be appealing.

Regarding the other option, keeping the subway as is and extending it to Agincourt, I used to be very much in favor of that. Still don't mind it, but less enthusiastic, after realizing that the bulk of transit riders dislike transfers. (I personally don't mind transfers, they actually make the trips less boring, but that's just me.)

An extension to Agincourt, or even to STC, would still retain a linear transfer, just moving the transfer point further east. Perhaps we should aim at another solution, one that will make an extension east of McCowan and west of Dufferin affordable, even if at the cost of lower capacity and some technical hurdles.

This also brings up a good point.. is STC even the right location to become Scarborough's city centre? It always felt a desolate area that's psychologically isolated from the rest of Scarborough. The road network is awful and the mall is a hindrance to grand schemes or an attractive public realm.

If the subway is to stop at Agincourt, maybe it even makes sense to shift the city centre to this area instead. Kennedy/Sheppard are much better suited to develop a high density civic core ala NYCC.

 

[kEiThZ]

My goodness. You just keep wanting proof for this one statement.

You seem surprised that somebody called you out on your bullshit while you seem to have to no reservations calling out other on theirs.

Ok lets say for the argument that I am wrong.

An apology with a caveat isn't an apology. It's akin to Donald Trump's "many sides".

Now. Are you going to apologize without reservations for your flawed assumptions about suburbanites and for engaging in falsehoods? We can get back to a fact based discussion after that.

You seem to want to divert the topic back to facts awfully quickly after resorting to several attacks on suburbanites.

 

[kEiThZ]

Perhaps I was so toxic that everyone blocked me and didn't get my request for some stats and answers to my questions. On the other hand maybe the stats simply don't look great for this line and there are no good answers either. It's all quiet on the eastern front.

About as quiet as you when asked for stats.

 

[kEiThZ]

This also brings up a good point.. is STC even the right location to become Scarborough's city centre? It always felt a desolate area that's psychologically isolated from the rest of Scarborough. The road network is awful and the mall is a hindrance to grand schemes or an attractive public realm.

If the subway is to stop at Agincourt, maybe it even makes sense to shift the city centre to this area instead. Kennedy/Sheppard are much better suited to develop a high density civic core ala NYCC.

We are well past the point where the City Centre can be moved. It's been there for decades. There has been development going on around it.....albeit very, very slowly. And it's going to be on a transit corridor, be that a subway or LRT.

Agincourt will be a great node, but I don't see much potential for densification around it. It's just not going to happen. I guess the mall offers a spot to rip up and add density. But other than that....

What Agincourt does offer though is a reasonable linear transfer point in my opinion. East of Agincourt, curbside bus lanes would be enough. All the way to Port Union. And there'd be some exchange of passengers with GO RER/SmartTrack.

I still think conversion to LRT is better. But if we're going to have a subway, it's better to start talking about it and shaping the outcome now.

 

[sixrings]

I'm sorry keithz for making a statement without facts.

Can you or someone else who supports this extension please explain to me how this is financially a good plan in comparison to the ridership it is projected to get.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'm sorry keithz for making a statement without facts.

Can you or someone else who supports this extension please explain to me how this is financially a good plan in comparison to the ridership it is projected to get.

Read my post. Very, very slowly. I have not said I support the extension.

 

[sixrings]

Read my post. Very, very slowly. I have not said I support the extension.

My appologese again. Can you remind me if you support a lrt on Sheppard.

I would still like a answer though from people who support the extension idea. If it was just one city who blocked me I sincerely apologize to the urban toronto community at large