evandyk
Senior Member
Yeah. There's a housing crisis, which the city and provincial government refuse to do anything about, which is why so many people are living in parks.
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Shabby Public Realm
- Thread starter junctionist
- Start date
Towered
Superstar
If the city wanted to prioritize a solution to this problem, they could of course allocate more funding towards it through the budget, but that would take political leadership and will, and it doesn't take a Strong Mayor to do that.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
There were few encampments before Covid reduced shelter capacity. Now that Covid has abated and shelter capacity has returned, the encampments remain. But I'm not asking what the people are supposed to do, but what is our city and mayor's policy and plan for encampments? It would appear by this article in May 2022 (click to bypass paywall) that the City considered evicting the campers, but as of today there are at least two dozen tents in Allan Gardens.
This homeless Toronto woman living in Allan Gardens is facing an eviction notice from the city. She says all she wants is housing
After living in the park for nearly nine months, Lynn received a notice last Friday from the city telling her she had 72 hours to vacate.
www.thestar.com
We don't want to end up like Seattle, Portland or LA where encampments take over, and where the public become apathetic about it all. Even myself, I've started letting my little dog run off leash in the park, I know it's against the by-laws (349-12), but so is camping in parks (608-13), public defecations and obstructing sidewalks (743-9) and littering (548-2), and I have never seen a Toronto by-law officer enforce any of these in Allan Gardens or other parks near me. So I've just not going to GAF anymore - provided we don't encroach on anyone else's enjoyment of the space, I draw a firm line there.
This is an interesting angle....
Suit accuses Portland of violating ADA by allowing tents on sidewalks
The federal class-action lawsuit filed on Tuesday says that Portland has failed to keep the sidewalks accessible to people with mobility issues by allowing encampments to proliferate unchecked.
Not an encampments issue, but concerning shabbiness, has the City ever enforced the bylaws requiring property owners to remove graffiti (485-7) outside of a complaint from the public?
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evandyk
Senior Member
Over the last 2.5 years we've had covid and all of the impacts on shelters, but we've also had housing prices increasing by 50%, which has a major impact on homelessness. I would love for our parks to not be filled with tents, but if we're not going to build houses or apartments, where are people going to live?
Northern Light
Superstar
Except, the bolded is not true.
Toronto turns away people from shelters almost every single night. Sometimes more than 100.
There is no spare capacity.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I imagine if you dropped housing prices by 50% it would have zero impact on the encampments. These aren’t potential home buyers.
But again, I’m more asking what the city’s position and plan for encampments is, rather than rhetorically asking where they will go or how they got here. I imagine the winter will clear all but the most resolute campers out. But have our municipal government or any candidates announced any position on encampments?
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evandyk
Senior Member
Rents have also gone up significantly, including at the lower end.
evandyk
Senior Member
They've opened up more shelter spaces around the city, but all of them are the subject of significant controversy. I live in St. Lawrence, and the Novotel site is extremely unpopular, even in a neighbourhood where the alternative is people living on the street or in parks. Unless we are going to build more housing, which doesn't seem to be palatable to city officials (elected or bureaucratic), people will camp.
Richard White
Senior Member
The problem is the clientele not that the shelters are there.
I suspect if the clientele of these shelters were clean, sober and not involving themselves in criminal acts they would be welcomed.
Unfortunately, the people who attend these shelters have smashed windows and used drugs.
I don't blame the locals for saying no to them.
There needs to be a requirement for rehabilitation and continued sobriety if persons want to use the shelter system.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Yeah, I would have led with that rather than attributing encampments to a 50% increase in house prices. Again, people camping in parks aren’t potential home buyers.
evandyk
Senior Member
That is the recipe for people living in parks.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Like bears at the dump in cottage country, or seagulls at a picnic, one of the reasons these encampments are in Allan Gardens rather than Craigleigh Gardens or Edwards Gardens is that the first is where the food sources are. The homeless industrial complex, employing hundreds dedicated to serving this population, is well established in downtown east.
The Homeless Industrial Complex Problem
I work in Seattle and was homeless in Seattle so when I tell you that there is a Homeless Industrial Complex problem in Seattle, I'm speaking from experience.
If the City made an effort to relocate sources of food and support to across the city, the incentives to congregate at Allan Gardens may reduce. But that seems unlikely. So, we can only rely on the weather to clear the parks.
Farmers’ Almanac Winter 2025 Extended Weather Forecast (Canada)
Farmers' Almanac winter weather forecast for Canada calls for a season of rain and snow. Learn more about your region and see important dates.
www.farmersalmanac.com
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tiffer24
Senior Member
Hilarious.
junctionist
Senior Member
This comment sounds starkly out of touch with the reality of the housing market. Well-off buyers and investors have been driving prices up for years. The person living in a park might have rented a cheap bedroom in an old rooming house before the rooming house was bought and renovated into a luxurious single-family home.
Alternatively, another investor bought the rooming house, completed a "renoviction", and re-rented the place for twice as much per bedroom (removing another option for someone living in poverty).
You seem to assume that homebuyers typically buy for themselves. There's actually a small minority that buys a disproportionate amount of housing nowadays and rents it out. Rents go up as the price of housing increases for investors, who are now a major consumer of housing. The result is that the group of people who can't afford any housing at all increases.
With that said, one problem with homelessness in Toronto that is rarely talked about is that many 905 suburbs lack shelters of their own. Instead, they direct their homeless to Toronto. Some literally buy their homeless residents transit tickets to get to Toronto.
I believe that every 905 suburb should have a robust shelter and affordable housing system. All cities in the region should share the burden, but some have neglected the issue or downright refused to open their own shelters. That's unacceptable because it means that the homeless of the region become downtown Toronto's burden.
Northern Light
Superstar
Lets bring that image forward, for the click-averse, and preview-deprived:
Note here, the trees and all points from there to the adjacent store are Loblaws property; only the relatively narrow sidewalk to the curb is City.
A very odd arrangement.
When (not if) Choice moves to intensify this site, this space will almost certainly be turned over to the City for a wider sidewalk, might as well do that now as part of a re-design.
Those plates between the trees are not reinforced, so the soil under them is compacting. This streetscape precedes use of Silva Cells, same issue.
There's enough pedestrian space there, and the trees could be in an open-trench with a lipped planter to reduce salt penetration and increase water infiltration.
Silly just to put new trees back in the same poor conditions.
This is what the trees looked like, prior to removal, in June 2021:
Scrolling back through Streetview, many were dying or dead as far back as 2014
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The trees last looked healthy in 2009!