September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[gristle]

I have.

Based on your clear use of secondary sources and you complete mangling of the word "dissent" I highly doubt your claim.

"Decent-ion is the greatest form of patriotism" By Thomas Jefferson.

No, you have not.

I feel i am 100% sure that 9/11 was an inside job. It's much more then just a belief, it's based on tons of evidence and putting things together about how the government and governments operate.

As noted earlier, mere feelings and beliefs are not to be confused for evidence, so your feelings do not exceed your beliefs as a basis for proof for a conspiracy. Again, your claims about "tons" of evidence is empty. You provide none to back up your assertions regarding a conspiracy. You fail to provide the minimum to assert such a claim. You are running on empty. Only you fail to see this.

Implying that the US government isn't corrupt, you're so blind!. You're too conditioned and closed minded obviously. What's even more foolish is how even though you reject any possibility of a corrupt government, you've somehow managed to convince yourself that there's millions of people out there who are mentally ill and delusional.

Implying that a government is some sort of unified whole, or a closed-shop with impermeable walls, shows that you possess a truly corrupted understanding of government (which is actually composed of a huge number of people). Rather than engaging in petty commentary, why don't you clarify your remarks and back them up with proof that can be examined for accuracy. If you can't do more than answer questions with nothing but utterly vague blanket statements, then your capacity in making a cogent argument has to be brought into question. Face it Kamuix, you have not presented a clear, unified or structured argument anywhere in this thread. You have offered no evidence to back up any of your declarations. You willfully claim that your feelings alone are enough to back up your unsupported and vacant remarks regarding governments. Failing to offer anything of substance, you retreat to your vague beliefs and paranoia. It's an appeal to believe in the tooth fairy.

And you fail to see my point that I'm trying to make. It's getting people to consider something completely possible and from an open-minded point of view, quite obvious after a bit of research. And yet you make the same stupid point over and over. You're not skeptical of my claims.. you reject it without question.

I don't fail to see your point because you actually don't have a point. To be blunt, your claims are without substance - as in evidence or structure. Not once have you offered a plausible alternate theory regarding what happened. You've made bland and vacant musing about corruption and government, but you have never provided even the most foggy account to support any of your claims. The reason being is that you have no alternate explanation to offer. You also have no evidence or arguments to refute what you refer to as the "official" story. All you do is post remarks about your feelings and beliefs, and suggest that people take up a stance of uncritical open-mindedness. This is not a route to clear or critical thinking Kamuix, it's a slide down to fantasy and delusion. That's what you want of other people because then you don't have to back up your assertions with anything but soggy appeals as to how you feel with respect to your personal paranoia.

ou're the one who gives into propaganda.

You fail to back up this claim.

I was just asking again because you seem to dodge that simple yes/no question for some weird reason. Whenever you point out something i didn't answer or address i immediately address it for you, yet you've dodge numerous things I've asked. Assume i know your thoughts? you've made it obvious you were never skeptical of the 9/11 official report, that's conditioned when you immediately accept what the establishment tells you without question or skepticism.

I answered your question quite clearly. Failure to comprehend the answer lies entirely with you. Back up your assertions of a conspiracy with evidence to support such a claim. Provide clear evidence to refute what you refer to as the "official" story. So far you have completely failed to do either.

You're right i haven't read it, but neither have you so we're on the same page...I know the gist of the claim to how towers supposedly fell, I know it's complete BS.

You have not read the report that you repudiate, and you have the nerve to call me a hypocrite? You presume to know that a report you have not read is all bullshit? And you are upset about being called delusional? As I mentioned earlier, refute the report - with evidence. Otherwise, your claims are completely empty.

By the way, you admission most clearly makes you the hypocrite here.

Ok well anyone here who does think conspiracy "theorists" are nuts, are going to take your side either way. But anyway.. Delusional? Common.. There's millions of us. How could you convince yourself that there's that many scientists, cops, judges, professors, lawyers, climatologists, historians, governors, doctors and millions of others etc.. That are all delusional paranoid people. Alex Jones has had so many high profile people of any thinkable profession on his show who support & agree with him. So how can you convince yourself this? just curious, maybe you're right who knows.. :S

I don't really care about who you perceive to be on "your side." It's doubtful a room full of conspiracy theorists could ever agree on a single clear or supportable story - never mind back it up with actual evidence. And that is the point Kamuix, all those people, all that hot air - and after all these years not one plausible, supportable structured theory that can be examined, or supported by sufficient evidence. Not one!

That what is referred to as "failure."

This is what concerns me about your request MR. We've already established that you don't require evidence from the establishment to believe what they tell you. It goes through the media.. and you believe it.

What we have established is that you have no evidence to back up your claims regarding a conspiracy. In fact, you have not even bothered to provide any "alternate" theory or supporting account upon which to place the evidence that you don't have. You have admitted that you have not read what you refer to as the "official" story, but you still denounce it as bullshit. Because you have not read it, you have no idea what the report contains. That actually makes it impossible for you to refute it in any reasonable manner. Even if you had read the report in question, you still would still would have to provide a sufficient body of evidence to discredit it. But since you have not read it, no such evidence is forthcoming.

What you fail to comprehend Kamuix is that I am skeptical of you, your beliefs and your feelings. Your assertions are all empty and your feelings and beliefs lack even the most fundamental substantiation that begin could validate them. All your claims, in this regard, are barren.

9/11 is one thing, but everything else the government does is fraudulent,

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Start backing these claims up with facts.

So will i bring up some evidence to support my claims? Well I've shown you quite a bit.

Reread the thread. You have provided nothing in terms of evidence. Feelings, beliefs and poorly-framed questions are not evidence.

Maybe just subconsciously..

Not that you know what that means.

 

[Kamuix]

Anyone who doesn't know what that means wouldn't use it. I've provided tons of evidence, you're too conditioned I'm sorry Grissie! Your constant need for instant proof and facts shows that you dodge the idea of being skeptical of the government plus you dodged my question again. You're conditioned to believe what the establishment tells you and you've made that clear, so I'm sorry you can't see that the government is now going to screw you more and more as time goes on. Hopefully you'll wake up soon.

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlZoEZ0Zaao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVUV_ohngCU

Watch!

 

[gristle]

Anyone who doesn't know what that means wouldn't use it.

Someone who doesn't know what it means uses it: you.

I've provided tons of evidence

You've provided no evidence whatsoever. This thread is proof of that fact. You simply do not understand what evidence is.

Your constant need for instant proof and facts shows that you dodge the idea of being skeptical of the government plus you dodged my question again.

An illogical sentence. As noted earlier, you can't prove your assertion regarding a conspiracy, you have never provided a description of your conspiracy theory, and you have completely failed to refute the accepted chain of events. Your attempts at diversion are weak and only highlight your wish to avoid having to address the empty accusations you make here.

I'm sorry you can't see that the government is now going to screw you more and more as time goes on.

Since you assume a stance of knowing what the government will be doing, I challenge you once again to provide proof in this regard. Kamuix, when you accuse or assert the existence of something, the burden of proof lies entirely with you. Proof is not beliefs, feelings or vacant paranoia.

Hopefully you'll wake up soon.

I'm quite awake. It is you who is having issues with conscious comprehension. I've completely demolished your argument and you have failed to see this - or far more likely have avoided seeing this because it upsets you.

All you have left to offer is drivel.

 

[Kamuix]

Someone who doesn't know what it means uses it: you.

It's the part of the mind that controls a lot of emotional thinking patterns and picks up on different things we do and tries to physically & emotionally adjust to be way we do things that we're not consciously aware of. It controls our physical and emotional habits and addictions etc. Like that you're not consciously aware that you're rejecting information because of emotional barriers used to defend you from considering things that emotionally scare you. You haven't provided that you knew what it meant either so shut up Grissie! Also i explained it in earlier posts.

You've provided no evidence whatsoever. This thread is proof of that fact. You simply do not understand what evidence is.

Why do you keep bringing things up we've already discussed? You're the one that leads this conversation in circles.

And you fail to see my point that I'm trying to make. It's getting people to consider something completely possible and from an open-minded point of view, quite obvious after a bit of research.

An illogical sentence. As noted earlier, you can't prove your assertion regarding a conspiracy, you have never provided a description of your conspiracy theory, and you have completely failed to refute the accepted chain of events. Your attempts at diversion are weak and only highlight your wish to avoid having to address the empty accusations you make here.

Same thing here remember I'm trying to get people to consider it because it's more then highly possible and to do more research for themselves. < Instead of addressing that, you just say the same thing over and over.

Since you assume a stance of knowing what the government will be doing, I challenge you once again to provide proof in this regard. Kamuix, when you accuse or assert the existence of something, the burden of proof lies entirely with you. Proof is not beliefs, feelings or vacant paranoia.

We'll wait and see.

I'm quite awake. It is you who is having issues with conscious comprehension. I've completely demolished your argument and you have failed to see this - or far more likely have avoided seeing this because it upsets you.

All you have left to offer is drivel.

No you didn't you keep making the same stupid points over and over that I've demolished. You're just trying to create the illusion to the rest of the forum viewers that you're winning the argument. But you make the same stupid points in different words. If they read carefully they'll see that.

When it comes down to it. You rejected the idea of a conspiracy long before now. And now you've now negatively labeled what you call conspiracy nuts. So considering it would require that you put aside your hate for "us" which is even more emotionally hard to do. You know that person who's too afraid to admit he was wrong because he fought so hard and got so angry over something he thought was right, THAT'S YOU FOOL! The problem is as much as you think you're right, you've got too many conditioned people on your side that will support the government lies & your view that you don't need logic to convince yourself you're right.

So keep going.. make the same stupid points in another post. Except remember this.. only time will tell now. There's no point posting another argument unless you quit going in circles.

To throw a few out there, the toxicity of fluoride in your drinking water, you should research that because the government created the illusion that fluoride is good for you. another no brainer is how they create the illusion that marijuana is a dangerous "gateway" drug when it's one of the safest and least addictive recreational drugs you can use. Yet now in society it's looked down at from many people if you smoke marijuana. But if you drink one of the most physically toxic drugs called Alcohol it's perfectly fine. Not to mention most of them do it too.

Also don't drink artificial sweeteners by the name of Splenda or Aspartame. False studies show that they're safe but obviously they're not. If you want proof or info on this it can easily be found using google.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/a...weeteners.html
http://www.sweetpoison.com/
http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/aspartame-sweet-misery/
http://www.laleva.cc/food/food.html

There's 4 i quickly found on google. so STAY AWAY FROM DIET COKES & OTHER DIET DRINKS!

So now that your attempt to dismiss a conspiracy simply by dismissing me for not personally showing you all that documentation you demand has not worked. And remember i'm just trying to get you to consider the possibility not to believe the conspiracy itself. I gave up on that because it's obvious that you're too narrow minded to even consider it but really don't you see... I know you're more then smart enough to know what I'm talking about, but when it comes to narrow minded people it seems their emotions get the better of them.

I understand that there's not much you can do now Grissie, your mind is too far gone under. The reason this makes me mad is it's because of people like you that the country doesn't wake up to the things our government has really been doing. This includes putting fluoride in our water, toxic artificial sweeteners like Aspartame that's put in our food(mostly gum and diet drinks). Research that guys please. The more people that wake up to what really goes on the better. We the people have the power to change this. It's people like Grissie who can't get passed what's he's been conditioned to think. It's not about intelligence. I know Grissie is a smart guy, yet he's unable to get passed the conditioning. If we the people would just open our minds and Use the internet while it's still free We can stop this.

 

[PinkLucy]

another no brainer is how they create the illusion that marijuana is a dangerous "gateway" drug when it's one of the safest and least addictive recreational drugs you can use.

Actually, recent studies have been showing that marijuana use (and other drugs including alcohol) may be linked to psychosis and schizophrenia. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Addictions/18722 and http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html for example. Pesky facts.

 

[Kamuix]

I''ve seen a lot of studies that try to link marijuana use to schizophrenia and psychosis. I'd go to erowid to try accurate information on drugs. here's a good read in reply to that: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_health3.shtml

 

[PinkLucy]

I work firsthand with people working in addictions. It happens.

 

[Kamuix]

You'll notice in society that no matter what studies come out against any legal drug it won't stop the majority from using it. But when it comes to anything against marijuana people will use it to justify saying the drug is bad and should be illegal etc. And Tobacco and Alcohol and much worse then marijuana. The correlation between schizophrenia and psychosis with a drug like marijuana has no secure direct connection. Read the link. Mental illness is complicated.

 

[PinkLucy]

I read the link. I'm well aware of the complications of mental illness on both a professional and personal level. And in fact, I've been in favour of legalization of marijuana for years; however, the composition of marijuana has been changing and so too have its impacts, so I don't believe in carte blanche legalization of this or any other drug, including alcohol.

 

[AGTO]

Actually, recent studies have been showing that marijuana use (and other drugs including alcohol) may be linked to psychosis and schizophrenia. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Addictions/18722 and http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html for example. Pesky facts.

...and also show that it is not a gateway drug, as is often, falsly claimed.

 

[doady]

Actually, recent studies have been showing that marijuana use (and other drugs including alcohol) may be linked to psychosis and schizophrenia. http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Addictions/18722 and http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html for example. Pesky facts.

This might explain the rise of the PVV in Holland.

 

[gristle]

It's the part of the mind that controls a lot of emotional thinking patterns and picks up on different things we do and tries to physically & emotionally adjust to be way we do things that we're not consciously aware of. It controls our physical and emotional habits and addictions etc. Like that you're not consciously aware that you're rejecting information because of emotional barriers used to defend you from considering things that emotionally scare you. You haven't provided that you knew what it meant either so shut up Grissie!

The only defence you provide for your position is that you "feel" and "believe" in a conspiracy. You have no evidence otherwise. In light of zero evidence, you refuse to change your beliefs and feel so fearful and cornered that you tell me to shut up.

As for me not providing a definition for the word, I wasn't using it. You were. My job is not to provide anything for you. If you want to argue a position such as the existence of a conspiracy, you have to prove it with evidence. No one else is responsible to do the leg work you have otherwise failed so miserably at.

Why do you keep bringing things up we've already discussed? You're the one that leads this conversation in circles.

I keep bringing this up in order to point out to you that your mere "beliefs" and "feelings" are in no way sufficient in proving a conspiracy. There is nothing circular about these statements. They are factual because you have evidently failed to defend your position to any reasonable degree. That you refuse to change your mind, in the absence of any facts, is quite unreasonable.

Same thing here remember I'm trying to get people to consider it because it's more then highly possible and to do more research for themselves. < Instead of addressing that, you just say the same thing over and over.

Rather than spending so much time having your mind "open" (all the while keeping it closed in the absence of any supporting evidence), you might want to work on improving your writing. Unlike you, I think that most people don't need to be told to keep an open mind by a person (you) who adheres to a belief of a conspiracy so religiously and emotionally, but can't scrape up any evidence whatsoever to support that assertion. You are hardly a standard bearer for open-mindedness Kamuix.

We'll wait and see.

Just the empty response I expect from you.

No you didn't you keep making the same stupid points over and over that I've demolished.

You haven't even answered them. You haven't even tried. It's comical. You are comical.

You're just trying to create the illusion to the rest of the forum viewers that you're winning the argument.

Hardly an illusion. You have offered nothing substantive whatsoever.

You rejected the idea of a conspiracy long before now.

Because there is no proof of the one you suggest.

So considering it would require that you put aside your hate for "us" which is even more emotionally hard to do. You know that person who's too afraid to admit he was wrong because he fought so hard and got so angry over something he thought was right, THAT'S YOU FOOL! The problem is as much as you think you're right, you've got too many conditioned people on your side that will support the government lies & your view that you don't need logic to convince yourself you're right.

Poor thing; such out of control emotions. And that persecution complex! It must be tough to handle on top of your rampant paranoia.

By the way, where is your evidence Kamuix?

So keep going.. make the same stupid points in another post.

Sure thing. Just for you: where is your evidence for the assertions you are making here regarding a conspiracy? Why have you failed so miserably in providing an account of this conspiracy? Who were the major players and accomplices? What exactly was there motivation? Exactly how did they carry out there activities? Please show a logically consistent accounting of events and provide testable evidence and timelines.

Oh, that's right, you have no evidence or anything else. You have a feeling.

To throw a few out there, the toxicity of fluoride in your drinking water...

Blah, blah, blah. This is where you post a litany of other paranoid fears in order to deflect the fact that you have no evidence. You have your catalog of fears, ghosts in the closet and devils under your bed. The world must be a terrifying place for you Kamuix. Everyone is out to get you.

Boo!

I gave up on that because it's obvious that you're too narrow minded to even consider it but really don't you see

You gave up because you have no proof. You just go on providing links to other conspiracy sites. The blending of diet soft drinks and 9/11 conspiracy beliefs if illogical, silly and laughable.

Of course the best part is where you go and tell others to do research because you are too lazy to provide any yourself. The pattern of failure continues.

 

[Kamuix]

Here's the problem Grissie, all you've done is attack that I haven't shown you enough evidence to convince you that 9/11 is an inside job therefor you reject it completely. Not giving the idea a chance even though I've said that that's all I'm trying to do many times. Now you're become more aggressive in doing the same thing. A conspiracy cannot be proven to someone who has been successfully brainwashed and conditioned and has tunnel vision on this.

You've gone further to try and create the illusion that everything I've shown is complete nonsense, and you do that exact thing by saying "Hardly an illusion. You have offered nothing substantive whatsoever." And the pattern of failure continues etc.. Also you've attacked my spelling, called me lazy(which i am right now but my point remains valid), fearfulness, paranoia etc..

Every time you've quotes something i've said you make the same point but worded differently that I've happened to counteract at least 12 times. You're agenda is to make me look stupid. It has nothing to do with 9/11 anymore.

So now that your attempt to dismiss a conspiracy simply by dismissing me for not personally showing you all that documentation you demand has not worked. And remember I'm just trying to get you to consider the possibility not to believe the conspiracy itself. I gave up on that because it's obvious that you're too narrow minded to even consider it but really don't you see... I know you're more then smart enough to know what I'm talking about, but when it comes to narrow minded people it seems their emotions get the better of them.

I understand that there's not much you can do now Grissie, your mind is too far gone under. The reason this makes me mad is it's because of people like you that the country doesn't wake up to the things our government has really been doing. This includes putting fluoride in our water, toxic artificial sweeteners like Aspartame that's put in our food(mostly gum and diet drinks). Research that guys please. The more people that wake up to what really goes on the better. We the people have the power to change this. It's people like Grissie who can't get passed what's he's been conditioned to think. It's not about intelligence. I know Grissie is a smart guy, yet he's unable to get passed the conditioning. If we the people would just open our minds and Use the internet while it's still free We can stop this.

You don't have to be very smart to see that 9/11 was an inside job, you just need to do a little research and be a little open-minded, that's it. And i say we'll just have to wait and see because the only way for you to learn is obviously going to be the hard way.

 

[ganjavih]

So marijuana is good, and fluoride and Aspartame are toxic... riiiight...

By the way, as someone who works in mental health, I can confirm that marijuana is linked to psychosis... at times psychosis that persists beyond the acute intoxication. The association with schizophrenia per se is not as clear.

 

[GenerationW]

STAY AWAY FROM DIET COKES & OTHER DIET DRINKS!

So this regular Coke I'm drinking right now is okay? Whew, what a relief!

In my imaginary world, I'd legalize recreational use of marijuana only for those under 40. There are few things more pathetic than being in the company of a middle-aged pothead.

In the real world, I'm fine with how things are now.