News   Jul 24, 2024
 269     0 
News   Jul 24, 2024
 279     0 
News   Jul 23, 2024
 799     0 

September 11th: Real or Fraud?

Was 9/11 an inside job?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 33.8%
  • No

    Votes: 90 66.2%

  • Total voters
    136
Status
Not open for further replies.
There is no way this many professional groups (and individuals) would be forming if the official 911 Story was true. The majority of Americans, Canadians and people around the world don't believe the 911 Official Story. If you do believe it, then you are in the minority and obviously haven't done any research on the matter! Think about it! (Referring to the people who believe the nonsense 911 Official Story (aka lies)).

Those are not primary sources. They are blog sites.

Where is the actual evidence of a conspiracy - the physical evidence? Where is the actual proof illustrating who was involved and how they were involved and even why they were involved? All your are being asked to do is to do is to simply unroll the sequence of events, the players, their involvement and the physical proofs and eyewitness accounts that clearly show the conspiracy you allude to but can never provide any clarity for. Try for once to generate an actual verifiable chain of events that supports a conspiracy - other than the otherwise vague and hazy questions you try to push as being proof.

Hiding behind the "majority" is just silly. It proves nothing. And since you have alluded to Global Warming so many times, might I remind you that people who claim such a belief always indicate that they are part of the majority. Going by your line of reasoning, one has to ask why in this instance you don't defend that majority so readily?
 
Kamuix believes the Alex Jones crowd. I don't. However, I do increasingly believe the CIA and Mossad were involved, to some degree, in the planning and execution of the attack. There's just too many strange coincidences that occurred to explain otherwise, particularly now that the Dubai assassination operation is being exposed. The motive--as it always is for war--was money. Money is control.
 
Again, stating a belief is not evidence. What you presume to be a coincidence is based on your presumptions that it is so.

Conspiracies are events that have been shown to be so: that people actually conspired to do certain things for certain reasons. Thoughts and beliefs founded on paranoia regarding governments can in no way be remotely construed as being proof of a conspiracy. Questions about specific events are not proof of a conspiracy.

To somehow relate everything back to money is actually quite banal. I could easily turn it all around and suggest that you say this only because you overemphasize the importance of money.
 
You keep defending by pointing out that what we provide isn't evidence but the evidence you require is beyond what's possible. See it doesn't make sense to me how you're still not skeptical of the government and it seems you've been conditioned and are so ignorant that you won't even consider it.

Question gristle: are you skeptical of the official 9/11 report? Because by your logic we don't have the proof you're looking for, but it works the same way the other way around, so if you're really being honest about your logic then you should also be skeptical of the official story right?

Also rejecting it as nonsense paranoia is weird if you actually look at all the people coming out against 9/11 and the fact that it's growing and that tons of polls say people don't believe the official story.. But no there's not enough evidence and it's not proof, so you just go ahead and believe the government.

So out of all the stuff we've shown you here so far, are you skeptical of the official 9/11 report?
 
You keep defending by pointing out that what we provide isn't evidence but the evidence you require is beyond what's possible. See it doesn't make sense to me how you're still not skeptical of the government and it seems you've been conditioned and are so ignorant that you won't even consider it.

I really could not care less about what makes "sense" to you. The simple fact is that you fail over and over to show an actual conspiracy. You have mistakenly assumed that your questions are some how indicative of a supposed conspiracy - and I say "supposed" because you have not offered any tangible evidence or collection of conspirators or their motivations. In fact, other than mumbling something about the "government" being responsible, you have failed to provide even the most basic shred of actual evidence for this assertion, nor have you bothered to offer up even the most rudimentary theoretical framework upon which such evidence could actually be mounted. You call me ignorant, but you can't even scratch up the imagination to posit some sort of actual testable timeline and chain of evidence. You simply presume your paranoia to be adequate enough to stand in for facts and your feelings for truth. In the real world, that does not cut it. To call your assertions inadequate is to understate the situation.

Because by your logic we don't have the proof you're looking for, but it works the same way the other way around, so if you're really being honest about your logic then you should also be skeptical of the official story right?

So why don't you provide actual evidence for why the "official" story does not cut it? And once again, not some string of poorly defined questions or nebulous beliefs about "governments," but actual and tangible evidence that can be examined and tested. Honestly, with respect to the whole evil government thing, when you allude to that, it indicates the need for medication over and above the necessary education into understanding how to posit reasonable research questions and how to present a supporting chain of evidence to back up the existence of a conspiracy for a crime. And please do not invoke the word logic; nowhere in this thread have you come close to actually structuring a logical argument (if you even know what that means).

The little game of attempting to have me defend a position won't work either Kamiux. It's nothing more than a one-dimensional ploy to take the attention off the fact that you have zero to offer in the way of substance. The simple fact is that you are asserting the existence of a conspiracy, and I am demanding that you show the supporting evidence for the existence of that conspiracy. That is the only means by which facts get verified or falsified: you deposit your theory in full and then supply the supporting evidence - including the timeline, the players and their motivations and means for carrying out the actions you assert to prove. From that point on, your theory and the supporting evidence become falsifiable; others can examine, measure, test and verify or falsify your case.

But you have no such theory nor any shred of supporting evidence. In short, you have nothing whatsoever to back up your claims. You have no evidence of a conspiracy.

Your questions can best be described as "imaginative." But then many children have imaginary friends who they talk to and believe in. Your questions are not evidence of anything, and you fail (and refuse) to see this. Add to that, your attitude towards "government" is paranoiac and unhealthy. That you see government as some sort of nefarious and conniving unified plot rather than a organizations consisting of human beings carrying out legislative and service efforts is troubling. It ventures into Timothy McVeigh territory wherein people decide to blow up government buildings thinking that they are engaged in killing a plot when in fact they are murdering men and women doing their jobs - along with killing their children who are down in the day care.

Also rejecting it as nonsense paranoia is weird if you actually look at all the people coming out against 9/11 and the fact that it's growing and that tons of polls say people don't believe the official story.. But no there's not enough evidence and it's not proof, so you just go ahead and believe the government.

You offer this as what? Evidence? Loads of people believe in ghosts, the devil, the end of the world being upon us, aliens, gods, channeling, psychic powers, telekinesis and a whole range of other unsupported beliefs. Simply believing in something does not actually support its existence. This is something you repeatedly fail to comprehend.
 
I really could not care less about what makes "sense" to you. The simple fact is that you fail over and over to show an actual conspiracy. You have mistakenly assumed that your questions are some how indicative of a supposed conspiracy - and I say "supposed" because you have not offered any tangible evidence or collection of conspirators or their motivations. In fact, other than mumbling something about the "government" being responsible, you have failed to provide even the most basic shred of actual evidence for this assertion, nor have you bothered to offer up even the most rudimentary theoretical framework upon which such evidence could actually be mounted. You call me ignorant, but you can't even scratch up the imagination to posit some sort of actual testable timeline and chain of evidence. You simply presume your paranoia to be adequate enough to stand in for facts and your feelings for truth. In the real world, that does not cut it. To call your assertions inadequate is to understate the situation.

lol.. ok we covered a ton of things that may clearly suggested a conspiracy. Ever watch Loose Change or 9/11 Chronicles? It's as if you never have because they bring up SOO many things that didn't make sense and point to a conspiracy.. it's like you're trying to avoid it.

So why don't you provide actual evidence for why the "official" story does not cut it? And once again, not some string of poorly defined questions or nebulous beliefs about "governments," but actual and tangible evidence that can be examined and tested. Honestly, with respect to the whole evil government thing, when you allude to that, it indicates the need for medication over and above the necessary education into understanding how to posit reasonable research questions and how to present a supporting chain of evidence to back up the existence of a conspiracy for a crime. And please do not invoke the word logic; nowhere in this thread have you come close to actually structuring a logical argument (if you even know what that means).

I realize i don't argue in as much a "sophisticated" manner as you.. if you want to hear a better argument you could easily find one anywhere on the net. And let me say this again for the sixth time:
Also lets not forget and i'll say this again because you guys keep ignoring it.. And that is that i'm NOT asking you guys to believe me or Loose Change Etc. i'm just asking that you guys don't automatically believe the official story.

And yet you don't answer the question i just asked twice in my recent post
are you skeptical of the official 9/11 report?
Although you implied that you're not but didn't answer it directly for SOME reason.. Perhaps trying to avoid that you contradict your own logic?

The little game of attempting to have me defend a position won't work either Kamiux.

It was one simple question..

The simple fact is that you are asserting the existence of a conspiracy, and I am demanding that you show the supporting evidence for the existence of that conspiracy.

Then I'll say this.. I don't personally have the evidence to prove to you that it's a conspiracy. You could easily find one but i can see you won't even consider that the government might not be what you thought it was.. I'm just offering a chance to open your mind and learn more.. (not by listening to me, but by looking around on the non-government controlled web while we still have it) You should know the media can't be trusted to cover topics that will put heat on the government.

That is the only means by which facts get verified or falsified: you deposit your theory in full and then supply the supporting evidence - including the timeline, the players and their motivations and means for carrying out the actions you assert to prove. From that point on, your theory and the supporting evidence become falsifiable; others can examine, measure, test and verify or falsify your case.

Well i don't really personally have the time to gather all the government documents and make some sort of a project involving all these things you ask for.. So you won't get the proof from me obviously. But let me ask you this, do you really need the information put together like that to make you even just consider that there may be a conspiracy? that's a lot to ask for to just be skeptical. It would be like me being told by someone that my unreliable & questionable girl friend cheated on me, but then me getting angry and refusing to be even be skeptical of her because he didn't provide the rock solid evidence right then and there.

But you have no such theory nor any shred of supporting evidence. In short, you have nothing whatsoever to back up your claims. You have no evidence of a conspiracy.

So go ahead.. believe the official 9/11 report then.. lol

Your questions can best be described as "imaginative." But then many children have imaginary friends who they talk to and believe in.

This is funny because how could you turn good questions about 9/11 (Assuming you're referring to questions like..

Why was there explosive residue found in the WTC dust?
Why were explosions heard from the lower floors of the buildings?
Why did WTC 7 fall and in the way that it did?
Why does the government attack anyone who questions 9/11? When it's our responsibly as citizens to ask questions.
And a million more:http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911q.html?q=911q.html
)

And wait... you reject these questions as imaginative? I see.. lol. next time I show up to work late and they ask me why i was late i'll just tell them that they're good questions are imaginary.

Your questions are not evidence of anything, and you fail (and refuse) to see this.

Ohh crap we have to repeat this again.. I'm not personally trying to prove anything to you sir.

Add to that, your attitude towards "government" is paranoiac and unhealthy.

Thomas Jefferson quotes 'Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism'

You offer this as what? Evidence? Loads of people believe in ghosts, the devil, the end of the world being upon us, aliens, gods, channeling, psychic powers, telekinesis and a whole range of other unsupported beliefs. Simply believing in something does not actually support its existence. This is something you repeatedly fail to comprehend.

Nope not evidence.. But wow you're actually trying to compare people like me to delusional people?

It's obvious that you believe the official story but really why? do you have any idea how untrustworthy governments can be and have been in the past? It's like you've been soo conditioned to trust the government. Perhaps the fact that you're "Intelligent" has gotten to your head to the point where you let your ignorance take over. And maybe not even realize it. I have doubts that you know anything about open-mindedness because i can clearly see that you have a very closed mind.
 
Last edited:
I don't personally have the evidence to prove to you that it's a conspiracy.

Well i don't really personally have the time to gather all the government documents and make some sort of a project involving all these things you ask for.. So you won't get the proof from me obviously.

So you admit having no knowledge of any conspiracy, no proof to offer, but just a wild belief based on your own imagination.

But wow you're actually trying to compare people like me to delusional people?

Yes.
 
Lol no i admitted to not having the rock solid evidence report & time line that you demand like some sort of university project, which is exactly what you were targeting me for for not showing. And obviously this doesn't involve my imagination.

You should never have not been skeptical of the official story unless you were conditioned to trust the government. So why not just open your mind to the possibility? I know it's hard after building up a "hate" for "conspiracy theorists" but isn't knowing the truth behind the propaganda more important? It goes way beyond just the type of lies & conspiracies I've been talking about.

To throw a few out there, the toxicity of fluoride in your drinking water, you should research that because the government created the illusion that fluoride is good for you. another no brainer is how they create the illusion that marijuana is a dangerous "gateway" drug when it's one of the safest and least addictive recreational drugs you can use. Yet now in society it's looked down at from many people if you smoke marijuana. But if you drink one of the most physically toxic drugs called Alcohol it's perfectly fine. Not to mention most of them do it too.

Also don't drink artificial sweeteners by the name of Splenda or Aspartame. False studies show that they're safe but obviously they're not. If you want proof or info on this it can easily be found using google.

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/artificial-sweeteners.html
http://www.sweetpoison.com/
http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/aspartame-sweet-misery/
http://www.laleva.cc/food/food.html

There's 4 i quickly found on google. so STAY AWAY FROM DIET COKES & OTHER DIET DRINKS!

So now that your attempt to dismiss a conspiracy simply by dismissing me for not personally showing you all that documentation you demand has not worked. And remember i'm just trying to get you to consider the possibility not to believe the conspiracy itself. I gave up on that because it's obvious that you're too narrow minded to even consider it but really don't you see... I know you're more then smart enough to know what I'm talking about, but when it comes to narrow minded people it seems their emotions get the better of them.
 
Last edited:
[video=youtube;XELamUnF0EU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XELamUnF0EU[/video]
Video of the 2nd plane hitting the 2nd tower. No bombs, no detonations. Just a huge mass filled with flammable liquid slamming into a building at hundreds of miles an hour.

I am amazed that people can blame the CIA and The MOSSAD? Really?

This was done by the people who have claimed responsibility. I have never seen a shred of evidence to the contrary. And...those who were behind in confessed. They even brag about it.

This was a terrible tragedy and thousands died. It was not the responsibility of The US or the "Zionist Entity". It was Islamic fundamentalists who are proud of the slaughter.
 
Last edited:
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes

1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always "sheep", patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.

2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say "no thanks", you'll be called a "sheep" again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.

3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they're pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.

4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero's "cui bono?" (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle's "once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth". What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply "eliminate the impossible" (i.e. say the official account can't stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on "cui bono?" (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have "open minds" and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.

7. Inability to withdraw. It's a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by "swamping" - piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.

8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the "official" account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the "official" account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.

9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it's “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.

10. It's always a conspiracy. And it is, isn't it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.

A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.

If you can say your thought process is included in more than 6 of these characteristics, then you are a victim of a conspiracy theory.
 
Last edited:
Video of the 2nd plane hitting the 2nd tower. No bombs, no detonations. Just a huge mass filled with flammable liquid slamming into a building at hundreds of miles an hour.

I am amazed that people can blame the CIA and The MOSSAD? Really?

This was done by the people who have claimed responsibility. I have never seen a shred of evidence to the contrary. And...those who were behind in confessed. They even brag about it.

This was a terrible tragedy and thousands died. It was not the responsibility of The US or the "Zionist Entity". It was Islamic fundamentalists who are proud of the slaughter.

It's as if you've been sitting in front of the propaganda machine all your life.. you haven't bothered to even try to look past. Uhm.. dismissing a conspiracy theory with just that after everything i've posted in this forum makes no sence.

Those 10 things are bogus generalizations...

And BTW Gristle you dodged so many of my questions it's not funny.. not to mention the fact that you contradicted your own logic.

And also another question.. why not actually do research? It seems you never even give conspiracies a chance to begin with, I was conditioned to trust the government at first, but it didn't take much for an open-minded person to see that anything is possible, especially when dealing with powerful people.

Did Gristle put you guys up to this? he dodged all my last questions & statements and hid behind a stupid one liner and comparing us to delusional people.

It's funny to me but makes me frustrated to how blind people can be.. It's shame how stupid you guys are going to feel when it becomes revealed that 911 was in fact a staged event.

YOU LOOSE! In 2004 it was admitted that the Gulf of Tonkin didn't really happen.. That resulted in how many deaths of the Vietnam war? hundreds of thousands!!

EDIT: Guys! take the time to watch this.. don't believe 9/11 was an inside job? watch this!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9y9LxD1WrY

The facts are.. the 911 truth group is growing.. the false deceptions are being exposed faster then ever before and I take back what i said about 10 years from now.. can't see it being anymore then 2 before you guys are faced with the truth.

EDITAGAIN: Actually you lose because you're programmed mind won't let you even consider that the government might be corrupt. which is what it comes down to in the end with you.. Gristle
 
Last edited:
It's as if you've been sitting in front of the propaganda machine all your life... you haven't bothered to even try to look past. Uhm.. dismissing a conspiracy theory with just that after everything I’ve posted in this forum makes no sence.

It's funny to me but makes me frustrated to how blind people can be... It's shame how stupid you guys are going to feel when it becomes revealed that 911 was in fact a staged event. .

…the false deceptions are being exposed faster then ever before and I take back what i said about 10 years from now.. can't see it being anymore then 2 before you guys are faced with the truth.

Actually you lose because you're programmed mind won't let you even consider that the government might be corrupt.

For sure he demonstrates 1, we're the stupid, he's enlightened. Nothing of any substance to say, just those that fail to seek the truth are stupid and programmed. I’m impressed with how many ways he can say that we are blind to the “Truth” in a single posting. Despite what you hear from your friends, most people believe in the official story that Al Qeada terrorists were behind the attack. I’m confident not everyone who disagrees with your position is stupid.


YOU LOOSE! In 2004 it was admitted that the Gulf of Tonkin didn't really happen.. That resulted in how many deaths of the Vietnam war? hundreds of thousands!!
Here is an example of 9, using a totally unrelated event as proof of a conspiracy. Have you ever read the report? In it Hanyok states…
The problem, of course, was the nature of
the provocation which made possible the passage
of the resolution. If the resolution had been tied
to the naval action of the afternoon of 2 August, or
to the communist bombing of the officers' quarters
in Saigon on Christmas Eve 1964, or even to
the VCsapper attack on the air base at Bien Hoa
on 1 November 1964, then the administration at
least would have had an actual incident upon
which to base support for it. Then any reconsideration
of the resolution would have centered
solely on it and not the incident on which it was based.
Had Johnson never used this particular report to escalate the war but had used some other incident, of which there were many to choose, this would have been a non event in the history of the war. What likely occurred was a cover-up of incompetence by those charged with the role of monitoring Vietnamese actions ,

And also another question.. why not actually do research? It seems you never even give conspiracies a chance to begin with, I was conditioned to trust the government at first, but it didn't take much for an open-minded person to see that anything is possible, especially when dealing with powerful people.

No one put me up to this. It’s not a conspiracy against you, not to worry.
Here check these out for some research to support the official position. These are real scientists and distinguished organizations in the fields of engineering, metallurgy, architecture and demolition on why the buildings collapsed. Personally, I think foremost it was the planes loaded with jet fuel flying into them but look at what the real experts have to say.

The Minerals, Metals & Materials Society
Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE, MIT article
University of Sydney Civil Engineering Dept
Jackie Craven on architecture.about.com
Implosionworld.com Site dedicated to building demolition

I’m not a Bush supporter by any stretch and I think the attack was used a false pretext for starting the war but I am confident that this was not an inside job staged by the US and Israel for the purposes of justifying the war.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top