saveoursubways (SOS)

[GenerationW]

Oh, that's a neat trick.

Essentially you are saying you can't criticize our plan, because we haven't released it yet.

Sensible decision! It worked well enough for the Tories in the last election, not releasing their platform until after the debates ..

Worked even better for Miller (and Giambrone) by unveiling Transit City four months after the election instead of releasing it at all during the campaign, unless anyone is really naive enough to believe this plan wasn't completely worked out well before the election.

God forbid we ever have an election where transit is the main issue.

 

[nfitz]

Worked even better for Miller (and Giambrone) by unveiling Transit City four months after the election instead of releasing it at all during the campaign, unless anyone is really naive enough to believe this plan wasn't completely worked out well before the election.

All the reports I've seen is that the details came after some pushes from the Provincial government, so that there was something in the MoveOntario 2020.

However, much of what would become Transit City was discussed during the election. The Waterfront West LRT line was under discussion and discussed in the media before the 2006 election. Don Mills has been studied since 2002. Miller campaigned in 2006 on improved bus and streetcar service, including new streetcar ROWs, and not on subway expansion other than Spadina. He discussed a new transit connection on Sheppard from Don Mills Station heading east (not subway), and an upgrade and extension of the SRT.

Miller seems to have done exactly what he promised.

 

[Justin10000]

Jane Pitfield's campaign included building a couple kilometres of subway a year.

 

[nfitz]

Jane Pitfield's campaign included building a couple kilometres of subway a year.

Which she would cost $250-million a year. Eseentially she was proposing $250-million a year in transit expansion. Instead we have about $12-billion to be spent by 2018. That's about $1.25-billion a year ... 5 times more than Pitfield was proposing.

 

[Ansem]

Which she would cost $250-million a year. Eseentially she was proposing $250-million a year in transit expansion. Instead we have about $12-billion to be spent by 2018. That's about $1.25-billion a year ... 5 times more than Pitfield was proposing.

and converting Eglinton and Sheppard in the future will cost how much you think?
what's wrong in using those 12 billions for subway?

 

[kEiThZ]

All the reports I've seen is that the details came after some pushes from the Provincial government, so that there was something in the MoveOntario 2020.

However, much of what would become Transit City was discussed during the election. The Waterfront West LRT line was under discussion and discussed in the media before the 2006 election. Don Mills has been studied since 2002. Miller campaigned in 2006 on improved bus and streetcar service, including new streetcar ROWs, and not on subway expansion other than Spadina. He discussed a new transit connection on Sheppard from Don Mills Station heading east (not subway), and an upgrade and extension of the SRT.

Miller seems to have done exactly what he promised.

Where'd he mention cutting off the Sheppard subway at the knees and building a LRT line out to the zoo instead? I must have missed that part in the campaign literature. It's one thing to talk about LRT lines in the core or along the waterfront. It's entirely different matter to turn Scarborough into your LRT wet dream on a whim without any honest discusssion about it during the preceding election. By any reasonable definition it was bait-and-switch or actually no bait, just switch, since I don't recall much discussion about what to do on Sheppard at all.

 

[kEiThZ]

She didn't have the wait of MO2020 behind her. What would she have promised if she had the same thing? You can't make fair comparisons on a tilted playing field.

 

[kEiThZ]

Which she would cost $250-million a year. Eseentially she was proposing $250-million a year in transit expansion. Instead we have about $12-billion to be spent by 2018. That's about $1.25-billion a year ... 5 times more than Pitfield was proposing.

She didn't have the weight of MO2020 behind her. What would she have promised if she had the same thing? You can't make fair comparisons on a tilted playing field.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Jane Pitfield's campaign included building a couple kilometres of subway a year.

Perhaps a bit short-sighted on my behalf, but I voted for her solely based on this.

 

[nfitz]

what's wrong in using those 12 billions for subway?

The majority is that $12-billion IS for subway expansion! Yet the majority of the km constructed is from LRT expansion. Think about it ...

 

[Dan416]

The majority is that $12-billion IS for subway expansion! Yet the majority of the km constructed is from LRT expansion. Think about it ...

I think this obsession with "km" is a little silly. I'd prefer less higher-quality transit than more lower-quality transit. Especially transit that stops at red lights.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I think this obsession with "km" is a little silly. I'd prefer less higher-quality transit than more lower-quality transit. Especially transit that stops at red lights.

And also when we have nowhere near as much of that higher quality transit than we need.

 

[GenerationW]

The majority is that $12-billion IS for subway expansion! Yet the majority of the km constructed is from LRT expansion. Think about it ...

Thinking about it.....

Sheppard LRT - $930 million

Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Finch West LRT & Scarborough RT upgrade - $7.2 billion

Total = $8.13 billion

Percentage of this amount allotted to subway as most people on this forum define it (unless you want to start a poll to refute that) - 0

 

[nfitz]

Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Finch West LRT & Scarborough RT upgrade - $7.2 billion

Total = $8.13 billion

Percentage of this amount allotted to subway as most people on this forum define it (unless you want to start a poll to refute that) - 0

I don't see how the semantics of us transit geeks has any bearing!

The construction cost per kilometre of the grade-separated section of the Eglinton LRT far exceeds that of the surface section. That's the point ... not whether a few geeks consider an undeground electric railway running 5 minutes or less is a subway or not!

It's interesting that Rossi appears to be objecting not to the capital costs of Transit City; but to the increased operating cost of Transit City. Yet the operating cost of a new LRT line will be less than the operating cost of an existing subway line. So I guess that's one politician that won't be supporting the SOS!

 

[kEiThZ]

It's interesting that Rossi appears to be objecting not to the capital costs of Transit City; but to the increased operating cost of Transit City. Yet the operating cost of a new LRT line will be less than the operating cost of an existing subway line. So I guess that's one politician that won't be supporting the SOS!

It's cheaper to operate a few kms of subway extensions to existing lines than it is to setup and operate a whole new mode of transit. That's what makes Transit City so expensive. Also, Transit City is essentially an upgrade to bus routes where it's not needed in some cases. How much of the operating budget, for example, will be wasted because the zoo is going to get a tram every 5 minutes? Whereas if they were to deploy better bus routes and build bus only lanes you could target service to the portions of the corridor based on demand. Is LRT more efficient than a bus? Sure. But is LRT more efficient in areas which can't even fill up a bus every 10 mins? Probably not. That's the flaw of Transit City. One size fits all does not work.