saveoursubways (SOS)

[junctionist]

Our latest iteration has a full Eglinton subway (airport to Kingston Rd), the DRL till Eglinton, Sheppard East and West extensions, and Bloor-Danforth east and west extensions. And of course, the two planned YUS extensions. We have a city wide BRT network that compliments the subway plan. And we're building a phasing plan and mapping out the costs per phase.

That sounds proper terrific. The maintenance issues I think are quite relevant or else no one will want to ride the subway by choice.

 

[kEiThZ]

For now we can't focus on things like clenliness. Give it time we'll get there.

 

[GTS]

For now we can't focus on things like clenliness. Give it time we'll get there.

I read that one of the items that got the axe at the TTC public meeting on Thursday the 29 of Oct. was the Station Modernization program. Some of the stations are still going to be moderinized because their funding was already in place but, some of the ones down the pipeline are shelved. Some of these plans they had for different stations would help with the cleanliness you mention and make our commuting even more pleasant. I think this investment might even help increase ridership, not as much as expansion of the subway lines but it will help. I think the Station Modernization Program should not have been cut as it an investment in our existing subway infrastructure.

I use Warden Station mostly and that station needs to get rid of the seperated bus bays to make transferring from bus to bus a little easier. Hopefully the TTC has a shared platform at this station for all the bus routes as well as an elevator for the subway platform. I have two children and strollers and this inaccessible fact of this station is why I don't use this station as often as Kennedy Station.

I think expansion is needed but, I think the city has to fix what we have so far before they expand.

 

[gweed123]

Here is the most recent version of the SOS proposal, which I have dubbed 'Move Toronto'.

I have also started work on the proposal report to accompany it. If anyone would like to read it and offer suggestions, I'd be happy to send it to you if you PM me your email.

Note: The dashed lines represent sections that will be completed under the 25 year Metrolinx timeframe, the solid lines the 15 year. The 25 year dashed subway lines are overlayed with BRT as a temporary measure until the subways are operational.

 

[kEiThZ]

We're looking for feedback on v4 of the map. Any thoughts or idea would help.

 

[Rainforest]

^ Eglinton: if it is subway, then Phase I (15 years or whatever) needs to reach Pearson.

You can afford to delay part of Eglinton East, but not the Pearson connection. If Phase I is just Jane to Don Mills, it is inferior to Crosstown LRT in almost all respects, except the ease of further extension. But since funding for further extension is totally uncertain, nobody will take responsibility for switching from LRT to subway.

If Phase I is Pearson to Don Mills (or even to Leslie), then it will probably have enough benefits to re-consider LRT.

^ DRL: only the eastern wing is needed urgently. The western wing can be moved to 25-year plan, or even beyond.

^ BRT: Some of the proposed lines will cost a fortune. If the projections for Jane LRT jumped from 600 M to 1.2 B due to narrow right-of-way, many of those costs will apply to BRT as well. Ditto for the portion of Finch E next to Yonge (unless you use the Hydro Corridor there; and will the Hydro consent to such use on a permanent basis?).

BRT on Main south of Main Stn is physically impossible unless you knock down some buildings (and why not use Danforth Rd., as TTC themselves propose).

 

[Second_in_pie]

^ BRT: Some of the proposed lines will cost a fortune. If the projections for Jane LRT jumped from 600 M to 1.2 B due to narrow right-of-way, many of those costs will apply to BRT as well. Ditto for the portion of Finch E next to Yonge (unless you use the Hydro Corridor there; and will the Hydro consent to such use on a permanent basis?).

BRT on Jane could work quite well, because it allows for a ROW where it's possible (Steeles-Eglinton,) and then regular bus service on the rest. If there's an Eglinton subway to Jane, the majority of riders can be dumped there, while the ones that need to get to Jane station can just stay on the bus, perhaps with signal priority or Bus lanes where possible.

 

[EnviroTO]

I would focus Eglinton subway to the west reaching the airport. With the DRL reaching Eglinton and Don Mills it would remove much of the capacity requirements from the area. The same reasoning suggests the DRL segment from Dundas West to Black Creek would not immediately be necessary. Lastly I would move the BRT/LRT route from Islington to Kipling. Islington is lined with far more golf courses and park land than Kipling... the only section of Islington which is better than Kipling is the small section from Bloor to Dundas... every other place it would make more sense on Kipling (i.e. Humber College Lakeshore, interface with Lakeshore GO, Kipling GO and Etobicoke Centre redevelopment, greater number of highrises at Eglinton with Richview corridor for further intensification, Etobicoke North GO, Albion Centre, and highrises from Finch to Steeles).

1. Eglinton subway from Yonge or Spadina subway to airport.
2. DRL scaled back to Dundas West for now.
3. Kipling instead of Islington for BRT/LRT.

Everything else seems fine to me.

 

[kEiThZ]

To service the airport in Phase I, we intended for travellers to use Blue 22 or GO. We made sure for Eglinton to connect to that line. That was the line of thought. Is it absolutely vital to have a subway connection to the airport vs. deploying the dollars to develop subways elsewhere early on?

 

[Fresh Start]

^ Eglinton: if it is subway, then Phase I (15 years or whatever) needs to reach Pearson.

You can afford to delay part of Eglinton East, but not the Pearson connection. If Phase I is just Jane to Don Mills, it is inferior to Crosstown LRT in almost all respects, except the ease of further extension. But since funding for further extension is totally uncertain, nobody will take responsibility for switching from LRT to subway.

If Phase I is Pearson to Don Mills (or even to Leslie), then it will probably have enough benefits to re-consider LRT.

^ DRL: only the eastern wing is needed urgently. The western wing can be moved to 25-year plan, or even beyond.

^ BRT: Some of the proposed lines will cost a fortune. If the projections for Jane LRT jumped from 600 M to 1.2 B due to narrow right-of-way, many of those costs will apply to BRT as well. Ditto for the portion of Finch E next to Yonge (unless you use the Hydro Corridor there; and will the Hydro consent to such use on a permanent basis?).

BRT on Main south of Main Stn is physically impossible unless you knock down some buildings (and why not use Danforth Rd., as TTC themselves propose).

Hold up, Jane LRT's $1.2 billion dollars now? You guys realize that for this expenditure the entire length of the ROW should be grade-separated, not just a tunneled segment south of St Clair. I disagree that Jane as BRT would cost anywhere near as high because all we'd be doing is implementing new reserved bus lanes and have widened sidewalks and curb extensions in lieu of road-median bus shelters. BRT vehicles in syncronization with transit signals can "command" lights to switch when approaching an intersection, allowing for it to have the right of way over conflicting motorist traffic.

I actually do believe that there is no inherent demand for folk at Jane-Finch to want to necessarily go to Bloor West Village. In that light I would split transit service along Jane Street at Eglinton, leaving the 35 local bus in place for southward trips meanwhile northwards get the BRT. This brings the total number of kilometres down to 10 and at roughly $10 million/km for BRT ROW construction and vehicles, a total of $100 million dollars is all that's required here (the most costly part i.e. access into Mt Dennis Stn would be attributed to Eglinton subway's budget).

Here's my proposal in greater detail:

And some love for the Highway 27 corridor incl. Rexdale and New Toronto, the DRL (two possible alignments) and two subways entering the 905 West:

Anyone seeing the light yet? BRT's more affordable than LRT, offers similar environmental and operational benefits with same carrying capacities if routed in bi-articulates, but takes far less time to build, and leaves over enough money for priority subway projects like Bloor-Danforth to SCC and Sherway Gdns; Sheppard to SCC and Eglinton to Pearson and OSC.

 

[Fresh Start]

To service the airport in Phase I, we intended for travellers to use Blue 22 or GO. We made sure for Eglinton to connect to that line. That was the line of thought. Is it absolutely vital to have a subway connection to the airport vs. deploying the dollars to develop subways elsewhere early on?

Yup! Look how the one subway can compensate for several miscellaneous rapid transit services to the airport (Eglinton-Crosstown LRT, Finch-Etobicoke LRT, TARL, realigning the Georgetown GO corridor, various local and interregional bus services into the terminals). There is a precedented level of demand for commuters to access this nodal area (in additon to flights there's jobs, eateries, hotels, conference centres and its status as a transit hub in-between regional services). Nowhere is more deserving of a new subway right now other than a east-west route through the downtown core. And when considering that the DRL can be interlined onto Eglinton's ROW to offer direct one-seat downtown-airport service, the cost- and time-benefits only compound.

I'm all for two subways to SCC if the same can be attributed to Pearson. We save money for subway projects citywide via cancelling the parts of Transit City that don't work and replacing it with several times more affordable BRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

The trade-off we were looking at was DRL west vs. Eglinton West for Phase one. We thought there might be more ridership on the DRL west than there would be on Eglinton West.

 

[EnviroTO]

I think it is more valuable to serve areas which don't have subway service yet versus building two lines to the same place at once. The funds saved by not running the Eglinton subway east of Yonge right away and the DRL past Dundas West initially would be better allocated to serving the airport and the connection with the GO/MT busway. I would think GO/MT connectivity and airport connections would sell to a greater number of residents in the GTA than the idea of two subways terminating at the Science Centre.

I just noticed the BRT routing to Malvern. I like the idea of consolidated infrastructure but I don't think it is a good idea to use Military Trail. The existing Ellesmere bridge over Highland Creek is large enough for BRT but Military Trail is a winding small road. It would probably be better to run on Neilson straight to Ellesmere.

 

[EnviroTO]

The trade-off we were looking at was DRL west vs. Eglinton West for Phase one. We thought there might be more ridership on the DRL west than there would be on Eglinton West.

DRL West to Dundas West is fine. Beyond that to serve St.Clair with its improved streetcar and new townhomes (not exactly high density) and Black Creek which would have the new Eglinton West subway isn't that valuable an addition. The denser parts of Weston Road are beyond Jane. I would think serving the airport, its hotels and conference centres, and GO/MT busway would
be more valuable.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I think that as a Phase I project, Eglinton doesn't need to go to the airport. I'd just build the Jane-Don Mills section, and then put bus lanes on Eglinton west as well as an express service to the airport.

That said, it would be quite easy to secure funding for both Phases, and build the two so they're both within a very close timeframe. I just think that it would make sense to give some time on the Richview corridor, so a development plan could be created, possibly in conjunction with the subway plans. So just as Phase I's finishing up, Phase II can be rolled out. Since it can effectively be split in two (Richview Corridor and 427/Dixon Road,) each segment can be built independently, meaning quite a quick construction time. This also lets the Jane-Don Mills subway to get up and running quickly, and this is actually a much-needed service. It'll save tens of thousands of people a long trip on Eglinton, and could easily suck up a large number of passengers that live or work on the subway corridor.