Rosedale: Should it be closed?

[EFSF Jaburo]

Read the consensus again and you'll see that it has something to do with the station not existing in the first place- which is exactly what my position is. I made the thread to see if others thought was viable for the station to be mothballed.

Look at the satellite/air photos . low density? I think so !

was THAT the humor?

 

[TTC12]

There are no major developments around the station unlike Bessarion- which has concord park place to guarantee a steady ridership. I'm actually surprised to see that summerhill has lower ridership. Riding the yonge line every week day, I can tell you this is not true



3 million trips ... really? I would take the wiki stats with a grain of salt. It looks inflated to me and remember that not all the riders will just stop using the TTC because they mothballed the station. I believe a majority will walk 6 mins (which is a very acceptable walking distance) to Bloor. Most trips are to downtown anyways so that 6 minutes isn't a complete waste either
But I like the 2nd suggestion.


I hardly think the canadian tire store adds much to ridership. the TRF is closer to bloor anyways


There seems to be a general consensus: Rosedale should be kept as is since it was built in the past. But if it were to be built again, ttc should reconsider the location (possibly merge summerhill / rosedale altogether)

ps. what about castle Castle Frank? Another prime candidate for mothballing.

I ride the Yonge line everyday too. It was according to a TTC report that summerhill is under used, but I see a goood amount of people there too.

I go by rosedale everyday, and I see a decent amount of people there, so I don't see why it should be closed down.

 

[newuser2k9]

It still would make sense to sell the land directly adjacent to Yonge Street and have something built directly upon the current entrance, maybe 10 or 15 years down the road. Sure, we'd lose some magnificent post war architecture, but that plot is probably fairly valuable in the scheme of things.

 

[Edward Skira]

There was a plan a few years back to sell that land on Yonge for development. Locals complained and the city backed down.

 

[threnody]

If anything, are there any streets on the northern Yonge line that need a subway station added?

Don't tell EFSF Jaburo this, but when the TTC built the North Yonge extension they built three straight, flat sections of track so that stations could be added later at Glencairn, Glen Echo, and Empress. Empress was built a decade later as North York Centre and the other two remain unbuilt, possibly because irate 905ers (I won't name any names) would riot at the 150 seconds it would add to their commutes.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Read the consensus again and you'll see that it has something to do with the station not existing in the first place- which is exactly what my position is. I made the thread to see if others thought was viable for the station to be mothballed.

Look at the satellite/air photos . low density? I think so !

was THAT the humor?

Should Rosedale not have been built in the first place? Who cares! Too late! It already exists!

Should Rosedale be mothballed? Of course not...what a terrible idea. Anyway, if all the stations serving under 10,000 riders a day were closed, you'd start on about closing all the station with less than 15,000 riders a day because these would now be the ones that are "underused" compared to other [often horribly overcrowded] stations.

The satellite photos show tightly packed houses west of Yonge and a large number of mid-rise buildings, but you conveniently zoomed in to the mansions east of Yonge. Yet, those mansions have maids and nannies, which help generate a lot more transit trips than equivalently-dense middle class housing would. What's medium density then, St. James Town? If Rosedale's grassy area was redeveloped with a condo, it'd have to be over a hundred storeys tall to make a noticeable dent in the station's ridership.

Don't tell EFSF Jaburo this, but when the TTC built the North Yonge extension they built three straight, flat sections of track so that stations could be added later at Glencairn, Glen Echo, and Empress. Empress was built a decade later as North York Centre and the other two remain unbuilt, possibly because irate 905ers (I won't name any names) would riot at the 150 seconds it would add to their commutes.

Of the two unbuilt stations, only Glencairn (well, Blythwood/Lytton) still merits discussion. Lawrence station is north of Lawrence and York Mills is south of York Mills, while, due to the steep slope at Hogg's Hollow, the Glen Echo station would have to be south of Yonge Blvd. This means that it'd be very close to Lawrence. Really, redevelopment around Yonge Blvd is neither possible nor desirable, so WYSIWYG as far as potential ridership goes, and that's not much at all. Everything south of Teddington Park is already only a 10 minute or less walk from Lawrence station, and everything north of Glen Echo is downhill, which would severely impact ridership...it's literally a hike. The only bus connection is the 97 that already runs in the area.

Blythwood/Lytton, however, is quite different. With Lawrence north of Lawrence and Eglinton station south of Eglinton, the gap between stations is much larger, and with the busier retail strip and the apartments there's more people walking the full kilometre to Blythwood/Lytton. A bus along Blythwood to Sunnybrook would be useful, and it could run west of Yonge along Glencairn. Redevelopments of any kind are just as unlikely, but the existing ridership potential is larger than Glen Echo. Still, even if the neighbourhood wanted a station added, they'd probably change their mind due to the required escape hatches, station entrance huts, substations, construction disruption, noise, electromagnetic radiation, and so on.

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

Don't tell EFSF Jaburo this, but when the TTC built the North Yonge extension they built three straight, flat sections of track so that stations could be added later at Glencairn, Glen Echo, and Empress. Empress was built a decade later as North York Centre and the other two remain unbuilt, possibly because irate 905ers (I won't name any names) would riot at the 150 seconds it would add to their commutes.

No, I'm a 416er. In fact, finch is 3 stops north of my usual station. And yeah, I already knew that NYC was built later because it makes perfect sense to build in a HIGH DENSITY neighbourhood with both office and residential buildings 20-30 stories tall ..duh

Should Rosedale not have been built in the first place? Who cares! Too late! It already exists!

Should Rosedale be mothballed? Of course not...what a terrible idea. Anyway, if all the stations serving under 10,000 riders a day were closed, you'd start on about closing all the station with less than 15,000 riders a day because these would now be the ones that are "underused" compared to other [often horribly overcrowded] stations.

The satellite photos show tightly packed houses west of Yonge and a large number of mid-rise buildings, but you conveniently zoomed in to the mansions east of Yonge. Yet, those mansions have maids and nannies, which help generate a lot more transit trips than equivalently-dense middle class housing would. What's medium density then, St. James Town? If Rosedale's grassy area was redeveloped with a condo, it'd have to be over a hundred storeys tall to make a noticeable dent in the station's ridership.

you never stop do you ... yes we should consider the convenience of the Bay street investment bankers and their nannies and maids but ignore the millions using stops north of rosedale , especially 905ers.

have you seen st jame town? its as dense as any neighbourhood gets

 

[scarberiankhatru]

you never stop do you ... yes we should consider the convenience of the Bay street investment bankers and their nannies and maids but ignore the millions using stops north of rosedale , especially 905ers.

have you seen st jame town? its as dense as any neighbourhood gets

You've never started making any sense. If 905ers by the millions so desperately need to shave 9 seconds off their trip downtown at the direct expense of thousands of people that use Rosedale, they can drive.

If areas like Yonge & Belmont are low density, what on earth is medium density?

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

9 seconds? Do you actually think the TTC train can stop fully from 60km/h in 9 seconds even using EB? - thats not accounting for the dwell time and time lost from acceleration process. Look at the map and tell me how much percent of the area surrounding the station is medium density - yeah less than 25%

didnt know that 905 generates millions of riders per year for the TTC?
the whole point of the subway and that huge parking lot at finch is so that people don't have to drive downtown and clog up all our roads

 

[newuser2k9]

You've never started making any sense. If 905ers by the millions so desperately need to shave 9 seconds off their trip downtown at the direct expense of thousands of people that use Rosedale, they can drive.

If areas like Yonge & Belmont are low density, what on earth is medium density?

Exactly. A little known fact, Jaboro, is that stations like York Mills only have high ridership due to the number of buses (GO and otherwise) they bring in. Rosedale manages to have 8000 daily riders (1/3rd of York Mills) with only two relatively minor bus routes. If a station like York Mills had the same amount of bus routes as Rosedale, you'd probably find York Mills was among the lowest in the line. Since buses collect the fare for trips to the terminal, the actual ticket revenue in York Mills would only be those small walk-in numbers. York Mills probably does have one of the lowest ticket revenues in the whole system. Using your own logic, it should therefore should be shut down for the convenience (10 seconds) of riders to the North.

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

How can you compare york mills to Rosedale. it IS one of those stations north that is held up by Rosedale so why the hell would it be closed down

and let me get this clear
I never said directly that I support the mothballing of Rosedale

people like klattu clearly can't read my posts properly and thus distorted things so bad that it makes it seem as if i was

but even klattu sees that Rosedale should never have been there in the first place. It might have been a good idea back then, but it sure isnt now

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

and new guy, you're distorting the facts too
YM has 3.5 times the riders compared to Rosedale.
And no one will ride the buses if it doesn't connect to the station so your theory on 'ticket revenue' doesn't apply

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

thats the thing... some people here seem to see one thing but manages to COMPLETELY ignore the other.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

9 seconds? Do you actually think the TTC train can stop fully from 60km/h in 9 seconds even using EB? - thats not accounting for the dwell time and time lost from acceleration process. Look at the map and tell me how much percent of the area surrounding the station is medium density - yeah less than 25%

didnt know that 905 generates millions of riders per year for the TTC?
the whole point of the subway and that huge parking lot at finch is so that people don't have to drive downtown and clog up all our roads

Read the thread. I'm not the first person to state 9 seconds. The number was chosen partially to make fun of your silly idea.

Rosedale generates millions of rides per year. That's the whole point of the station. Removing Rosedale benefits nobody farther north (unless letting 905ers sleep in for another 9 seconds counts as a benefit) but hurts everybody near Rosedale.

Density is irrelevant...those "low density" houses generate more transit trips than do higher density houses farther from the core and inhabited by poorer people.

 

[Fresh Start]

Read the consensus again and you'll see that it has something to do with the station not existing in the first place- which is exactly what my position is. I made the thread to see if others thought was viable for the station to be mothballed.

Look at the satellite/air photos . low density? I think so !

was THAT the humor?

There is no viable justification for shutting down a preexisting subway stop. And what of the connecting 82 bus when transferees are trying to get someplace in a hurry? Like what was mentioned above, York Mills and Rosedale are in the same boat (both in affluent neighbourhoods). Remove the frequently operated feeder bus routes into the former station though and then what of it's daily usage. Not that high, right? Well it's the exact same situation with Rosedale Stn.

I happen to think that Rosedale could actually double its ridership were a second exit built into the southern end of the station (exiting onto Belmont). Had you scrolled down in your satelite photos you would have noticed high-rise office buildings running through this whole general area from Belmont to Davenport. So employees of those businesses instead of walking 10 minutes down to Bloor Station could opt instead to make use of this station (particularly with an entranceway is integrated into the building's sublevel, as could be possible for the SE corner of Belmont). Another thing to consider is that the line could be decked over through this section with condominiums placed on top. That alone would generate an increase.

As an aside, Blythwood Stn sounds like a good idea... back in the 90s. With all the added regulations and building requirements nowadays it's not worth the effort. Besides just operating the 97 bus on more frequent headways would resolve the problem.