Rosedale: Should it be closed?

[allabootmatt]

Maybe this is a more second-order concern than 'lots of people use it,' but isn't an argument for retaining Rosedale that it's in Toronto's interest as city to encourage the wealthy and well-connected to see transit as essential and easy to use, and not a mode of transport of last resort? For better or worse people in Rosedale and places like it have a disproportionate impact on local and national politics, and making them stakeholders in a well-functioning TTC--just like everybody else--seems pretty damned sensible to me.

Same goes for cutting back the Rosedale 82 bus.

 

[adma]

Maybe this is a more second-order concern than 'lots of people use it,' but isn't an argument for retaining Rosedale that it's in Toronto's interest as city to encourage the wealthy and well-connected to see transit as essential and easy to use, and not a mode of transport of last resort? For better or worse people in Rosedale and places like it have a disproportionate impact on local and national politics, and making them stakeholders in a well-functioning TTC--just like everybody else--seems pretty damned sensible to me.

Same goes for cutting back the Rosedale 82 bus.

And given the sort of people I *have* seen using the bus regularly (Alan Gottlieb, among others), well...let's rest our case. Maybe if EFSF Jaburo's planning to run as a Marxist-Leninist candidate in a future election, I can understand his beef--particularly since he also mentioned Castle Frank as a candidate for closure, presumably because it's also too proximate to Rosedale mansions. (But duh, even more essential bus lines loop there, and ones that don't just serve the "rich areas", to boot. Heck, the fact that both Rosedale and Castle Frank have bus loops is a good an alibi as anything to not divert bus lines elsewhere, unless you want to add to surface congestion or else blast out city blocks for busways and bus facilities, etc. Or to phase out buses altogether on behalf of non-stop Subwaytopia. And what does he mean by "walk ins", anyway--that people living out around Glen and Binscarth can just take a short stroll to the subway? Rosedale is *huge*.)

And re my "completely irrelevant picture", it's relevant by way of metaphor--that is, it's as asinine to insist that Rosedale be closed on "density matters" grounds, as it is to insist that the TD Centre banking pavilion be demolished on "density matters" grounds. Like sure, one can argue that a single-storey banking pavilion at the very symbolic four-corners core of the Financial District is a pitiful waste of space compared to what a supertall can provide; but...

Oh, and EFSF Jaburo: there's already several subway stops serving the TD Centre, plus a streetcar and bus line as backup; so unless you want a Bay-stationed King Street subway, too, it's already pretty much maxed out.

Of course, the "Gundammy friend" comment highlights all one needs to highlight about him. Esp. when posting at 1:00AM on a Saturday evening/Sunday morning, such a character makes an Ayn Rand adherent look like a Jane Jacobs adherent...

 

[Admiral Beez]

I voted to keep it. How else are all those Filipino nannies to get to work?

 

[newuser2k9]

The way ttc counts these 'rides' is different from the way other transit systems count ridership so it actually is a lot more than what it seems to be.

And believe me when I say density matters for Rosedale. It has that one bus route which circles around the neighbourhood which could easily be diverted to end at summerhill or Bloor. Most of its riders are therefore walk ins. Do you get it now? Stations like YM have numerous bus routes that feed into it so it sustains a much higher ridership even though Hoggs Hollows is more or less like Rosedale neighbourhood

I'm really kind of confused about what you're talking about. I stated last night that if you don't count the bus routes for both stations (because, hypothetically the Rosedale buses can be diverted to Bloor and the York Mills buses can be diverted to any station on the Sheppard line), the total number of people who walk in and enter the TTC at those stations would be relatively equal. Under your logic, the low revenues generated by tickets should mean both stations get removed.

Would that be sensical? No, because you can't expect riders from either station to deal with extra hassle in their daily commute and still ride the line. And, for Rosedale's case, the few that did would add to an already dreadfully overcrowded station. It really isn't that complicated.

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

Ok. So first you say "I'd take those Wikipedia figures with a grain of salt."

And then I tell you said Wikipedia figures are directly from the TTC.

And then, out of nowhere, you suddenly emerge with this "fact" that the TTC is conspiratorily counting ridership differently than everyone else to inflate it's totals?

Most of the people in this thread can't agree on anything transit-related. (Seriously, if you want to really stir the pot, for your next thread outline how a truly "world class" city would build a segregated underground busway under Sheppard East from Don Mills to the zoo). Yet pretty much everyone is rapidly coming to the conclusion that you're quite possibly a whackjob. Seriously, my Gundammy friend, there's more to forming cogent opinions about transit planning than staring at maps of metro systems in Asia for a few hours.

I'm curious, how did you get the reference to my nick ?

No, I didn't 'stare' at maps like you said. I have used 3 of the 4 longest metro systems in the world quite frequently.

And given the sort of people I *have* seen using the bus regularly (Alan Gottlieb, among others), well...let's rest our case. Maybe if EFSF Jaburo's planning to run as a Marxist-Leninist candidate in a future election, I can understand his beef--particularly since he also mentioned Castle Frank as a candidate for closure, presumably because it's also too proximate to Rosedale mansions. (But duh, even more essential bus lines loop there, and ones that don't just serve the "rich areas", to boot. Heck, the fact that both Rosedale and Castle Frank have bus loops is a good an alibi as anything to not divert bus lines elsewhere, unless you want to add to surface congestion or else blast out city blocks for busways and bus facilities, etc. Or to phase out buses altogether on behalf of non-stop Subwaytopia. And what does he mean by "walk ins", anyway--that people living out around Glen and Binscarth can just take a short stroll to the subway? Rosedale is *huge*.)

And re my "completely irrelevant picture", it's relevant by way of metaphor--that is, it's as asinine to insist that Rosedale be closed on "density matters" grounds, as it is to insist that the TD Centre banking pavilion be demolished on "density matters" grounds. Like sure, one can argue that a single-storey banking pavilion at the very symbolic four-corners core of the Financial District is a pitiful waste of space compared to what a supertall can provide; but...

Oh, and EFSF Jaburo: there's already several subway stops serving the TD Centre, plus a streetcar and bus line as backup; so unless you want a Bay-stationed King Street subway, too, it's already pretty much maxed out.

Of course, the "Gundammy friend" comment highlights all one needs to highlight about him. Esp. when posting at 1:00AM on a Saturday evening/Sunday morning, such a character makes an Ayn Rand adherent look like a Jane Jacobs adherent...

You clearly have lots of time but write your (I must add) well composed essay about the TD centre elsewhere. Who's the other guy that posted 1 am then woke up extra early to write a rebuttal? Yeah ...

I'm really kind of confused about what you're talking about. I stated last night that if you don't count the bus routes for both stations (because, hypothetically the Rosedale buses can be diverted to Bloor and the York Mills buses can be diverted to any station on the Sheppard line), the total number of people who walk in and enter the TTC at those stations would be relatively equal. Under your logic, the low revenues generated by tickets should mean both stations get removed.

Would that be sensical? No, because you can't expect riders from either station to deal with extra hassle in their daily commute and still ride the line. And, for Rosedale's case, the few that did would add to an already dreadfully overcrowded station. It really isn't that complicated.

please, STOP talking about removing York Mills Station ... it really isn't that complicated.


We have our differences, and I won't criticize further. But I'm sure we can all agree on one thing : TTC sucks

 

[RedRocket191]

But I'm sure we can all agree on one thing : TTC sucks

I can't agree to that.

 

[adma]

You clearly have lots of time but write your (I must add) well composed essay about the TD centre elsewhere.

All urbanity is symbiotic, so to raise something like that as a metaphor or analogy is apropos. And if you don't give a s--t, maybe it's a sign of urban insensitivity on your part.

And better well-composed than your writing like you're strung out on cybergaming or whatever you do until the wee hours...

 

[newuser2k9]

please, STOP talking about removing York Mills Station ... it really isn't that complicated.

I'm having doubts about your critical reading skills. The only reason I brought it up is because removing any station from the line would be a stupid idea. If you want to complain that Rosedale slows down your trips south, I can complain about York Mills slowing down my trips north. Removing Rosedale only does NOT help the TTC, it also makes life harder for the people making those 3 million trips through the station every year.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

We have our differences, and I won't criticize further. But I'm sure we can all agree on one thing : TTC sucks

You're not able to criticize...that requires some basic understanding first. Now *that's* something we can all agree on.

 

[andomano]

We have our differences, and I won't criticize further. But I'm sure we can all agree on one thing : TTC sucks

Can't agree... and I doubt the other 459 million riders do either.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Can't agree... and I doubt the other 459 million riders do either.

Whoa, I didn't know the entire population of Canada and the USA used the TTC!

But I'll guess at least 2 million people do, at some point during the year. And I certainly don't agree that the TTC sucks. They're a long way from the top, but I'd like EFSF Jaburo to visit Atlanta, Los Angles or Dallas and then tell me that the TTC sucks. With a straight face, of course.

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

All urbanity is symbiotic, so to raise something like that as a metaphor or analogy is apropos. And if you don't give a s--t, maybe it's a sign of urban insensitivity on your part.

And better well-composed than your writing like you're strung out on cybergaming or whatever you do until the wee hours...

I was complimenting your well composed post you bitter old man

You're not able to criticize...that requires some basic understanding first. Now *that's* something we can all agree on.

Now, I know you can be reasoned with.

Can't agree... and I doubt the other 459 million riders do either.

are you sure? Bitching about TTC is a good topic starter among strangers in this city.

 

[Platform 27]

are you sure? Bitching about TTC is a good topic starter among strangers in this city.

Sure, but so is bitching about taxes, or bitching about the rain, or bitching about how music sucks these days.

When transit systems work at their best, nobody pays them much attention. When they have a shortcoming, that's what gets spoken about.

Why, look at all the hatred of this transit system I whipped up in 30 seconds of Googling. Judging by the tone of its riders, that system is a laughably long way away from ever being considered world class.

 

[EFSF Jaburo]

I don't think you know this but google also has this very convenient feature that shows how many search results are available

Results 1 - 10 of about 159,000 for ttc sucks. (0.20 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 70,400 for london underground sucks. (0.13 seconds)

considering the population difference as well, London's # should be half that so yeah ... there you go

How can you even compare the two? London's system is world's first and one of the longest.

 

[newuser2k9]

I don't think you know this but google also has this very convenient feature that shows how many search results are available

Results 1 - 10 of about 159,000 for ttc sucks. (0.20 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 70,400 for london underground sucks. (0.13 seconds)

considering the population difference as well, London's # should be half that so yeah ... there you go

How can you even compare the two? London's system is world's first and one of the longest.

And your point is that there are lots of results on google?

You get 371,000 results for "metro sucks paris," and 177,000 results for "bart sucks san fran." It all depends what you type. In fact, "london subway sucks" gives you 288,000 results.

Do you know if all of those results are relevant? No. All you know is that somewhere on the internet, there is a website that somewhere on its page has TTC and somewhere else on its page has the word 'sucks'. That isn't scientific proof of anything.