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Roncesvalles Reconstruction

Taken from Roncesvalles:
- money for extra concrete and labour ($$$)
-10% parking
-Car driving speed (congestion)
-Transit speed (congestion)

- The real labour costs are the ones you pay every day of the year. The operational costs of the streetcar are lower than the operational costs of a bus on a per passenger basis because the streetcars hold more people per driver.
- Yes, there is a reduced amount of parking but not much less because parking wasn't allowed at the streetcar stops before.
- Car driving speed will not change significantly from what existed before since before and after the revitalization there is only one usable lane in each direction due to parked cars in the other lane. Before and after there is a transit vehicle in the usable lane.
- Most cars enter this stretch of road from the Queen or Dundas intersections. There will be less opportunity for cars to get in front the streetcar since the place most cars use to get in front is at the streetcar stop or intersection ( the most dangerous spot to try to rush past a streetcar due to loading and unloading ).

Added to Roncesvalles
+Bump outs (Transit riders don't have to raise their leg 6 inches now)

- Some transit users don't have legs capable of raising 6 inches. Those same users have difficulty using cars.
- Some people do grocery shopping on Roncesvalles and pull a cart which will now be able to be wheeled onto the streetcar.
- Passengers on the streetcar will now be safer shielded from aggressive drivers trying to pass streetcars at loading and unloading points.
- In many implementations of bumpouts there are greater opportunities for sidewalk cafes, street furniture, trees, and planters making the street look more attractive.
 
So in conclusion.

Taken from Roncesvalles:
- money for extra concrete and labour ($$$)
-10% parking
-Car driving speed (congestion)
-Transit speed (congestion)

Added to Roncesvalles
+Bump outs (Transit riders don't have to raise their leg 6 inches now)

Wow what an awesome trade off! Kinda reminds me of some of the terrible trades brian burke has been making lately :mad:
You are flogging a dead (and built) horse - fortunately one can ignore posters on UT - you are now on my 'do not read' list. Farewell!
 
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- The real labour costs are the ones you pay every day of the year. The operational costs of the streetcar are lower than the operational costs of a bus on a per passenger basis because the streetcars hold more people per driver.
- Yes, there is a reduced amount of parking but not much less because parking wasn't allowed at the streetcar stops before.
- Car driving speed will not change significantly from what existed before since before and after the revitalization there is only one usable lane in each direction due to parked cars in the other lane. Before and after there is a transit vehicle in the usable lane.
- Most cars enter this stretch of road from the Queen or Dundas intersections. There will be less opportunity for cars to get in front the streetcar since the place most cars use to get in front is at the streetcar stop or intersection ( the most dangerous spot to try to rush past a streetcar due to loading and unloading ).



- Some transit users don't have legs capable of raising 6 inches. Those same users have difficulty using cars.
- Some people do grocery shopping on Roncesvalles and pull a cart which will now be able to be wheeled onto the streetcar.
- Passengers on the streetcar will now be safer shielded from aggressive drivers trying to pass streetcars at loading and unloading points.
- In many implementations of bumpouts there are greater opportunities for sidewalk cafes, street furniture, trees, and planters making the street look more attractive.

Youre missing my point entirely. You are in agreeance that there is less parking, there will be more congestion and it will be a slower drive. We can argue about how much less parking, how much slower it will be. You say it wont be "that much slower" i say it will be "a lot slower".. whatever. The whole point is IT WILL BE SLOWER and that is just plainly unacceptable in my opinion.
 
Youre missing my point entirely. You are in agreeance that there is less parking, there will be more congestion and it will be a slower drive. We can argue about how much less parking, how much slower it will be. You say it wont be "that much slower" i say it will be "a lot slower".. whatever. The whole point is IT WILL BE SLOWER and that is just plainly unacceptable in my opinion.

Won't be happy unless they raise the speed limit to 60 km/h on Roncesvalles.
 
Certainly speed is important for streetcars and cars. If both move slower with the bumpouts, then it may be detrimental. It's possible though, that those who just drive Roncesvalles without stopping to shop may choose other routes and there might not be much of a change.
 
Youre missing my point entirely. You are in agreeance that there is less parking, there will be more congestion and it will be a slower drive. We can argue about how much less parking, how much slower it will be. You say it wont be "that much slower" i say it will be "a lot slower".. whatever. The whole point is IT WILL BE SLOWER and that is just plainly unacceptable in my opinion.

I don't agree that the streetcars will be slower. The streetcars will go the same speed or marginally faster because there will be less congestion in front of them since cars will not be able to get by. On the flip side the cars will go marginally slower since at the few places one or two cars could get past a streetcar will be removed. The net effect is slightly faster streetcars and slightly slower cars which is a wash. There was no change in the number of lanes dedicated to traffic and that is why there is little difference. If Roncesvalles was a street which didn't allow parking during rush hour the net effect of bumpouts would be huge because it would be the elimination of a fully functional traffic lane, but on Roncesvalles this is not the case.

There is likely to be less parking because the new streetcars are longer... but likely they would need to move back the no parking sign in front of streetcar stops regardless to ensure the new streetcars aren't unloading into the side of a parked car. There should be no reduction of parking beyond that which, brace yourself, is likely to occur throughout downtown regardless of bumpouts being built and which would need to occur even if articulated buses were employed instead.
 
What or who were the city built for??

What were the streets built for??

There is the video of the street I shot on Nov 13, 2010 with my comments on it there.

I loose no sleep over people comments that they cannot travel at high rate of speed on city streets as that is what Highways are for.

[video=youtube;USXSpXabOJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXSpXabOJQ[/video]
 
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What or who were the city built for??

What were the streets built for??

There is the video of the street I shot on Nov 13, 2010 with my comments on it there.

I loose no sleep over people comments that they cannot travel at high rate of speed on city streets as that is what Highways are for.

I'm assuming you mean this video:

[video=youtube;USXSpXabOJQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXSpXabOJQ[/video]

I cut and paste the comments here:
November 13, 2010: We take a walking tour south from Dundas Street to Queen Street on Roncesvalle Avenue to where reconstruction of it at. The west side sidewalks from Howard Park to Queen Street have been rebuilt as well 75% of the road leaving the section north of Howard Park to Dundas still to be done and that will be in 2011. Only 3 of the 4 bump stops for the streetcars are built at this time. Based on the brackets that will support the overhend for the streetcars, pantograph wiring will be used. Some work was taking place on the eastside, but no way will the eastside be completed this year. Streetcars are to return on December 19, 2010 after been removed in 2008.

I've noticed the holes for the trees, to be planted in the spring, as well they have some right angle corners (not the normal curved corner) at some one-way street intersections.
 
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The Roncesvalles Renewed website (at this link) has the following updated information:

Completion dates

Sanscon, the contractor, expects heavy construction south of Howard Park to be completed on Dec. 3rd — a Friday. As with any renovation, that date may be out by about a week or so. And it will take a lot of 14-hour days on the part of the crew, possibly 7 days a week, to reach that goal.

A little encouragement goes a long way

I talked to a worker yesterday at about 8:30 p.m. He’d been at work since 7 a.m. and looked exhausted. They’ve routinely put in those kinds of hours for the past month. And it won’t let up until most of the work is done.

I told him how great the sidewalks looked and what terrific work they’re doing. And his face lit up. He says they seldom hear that kind of thing, that most of what they hear from passersby are the complaints. And when I wished him a good night, he answered, ‘well, now I will have one.â€

So just a thought that if you too appreciate what you’re seeing, I know these guys would probably love to hear that, especially at this point in a very long slog when the mess and the work is taking its toll on everyone.

Resumption of streetcar service

Track repairs are complete along the full length of Roncesvalles.

Once Sanscon is done with its road work for this year, the TTC moves in and puts back the overhead streetcar wires. The TTC expects to resume regular streetcar service on Dec. 19th — a Sunday.

Councillor Gord Perks, together with the Roncesvalles Village BIA is making plans for a celebration on Saturday, December 18th. There will be champagne! Details of the celebration have yet to be finalized.

Sidewalks and road reconstruction

The very, very latest details -- sidewalk work all the way from Queen up to Howard Park is complete. Road work on the west side is substantially complete from Queen all the way north to Geoffrey.

Enbridge still has some work to do on its gas mains on the west side, from Howard Park south to Geoffrey. Road work has been delayed because the utility didn’t have its work ready to go at the last hour. And we still don’t have a date for when Enbridge will send in its crews. This involves digging on the curb lane to relocate Enbridge gas lines further below the surface. The work will take about two and a half weeks. If you’ve been wondering why Sanscon hasn’t finished the road work on the west side at the north end, that’s the reason.

On the east side, sidewalk work is continuing from Grenadier down to Fermanagh. Look for even more sidewalk to be completed by the end of Saturday. And many people will be glad to know those steps that posed a tripping hazard for some on the sidewalk in front of Pollack’s Hardware will be gone.
The road and sidewalk reconstruction north of Howard Park up to Boustead Avenue is expected to proceed this season, perhaps as early as next week.

Finishing touches

Those ramps that you’ve noticed are to accommodate bikes. Some paving stones will still be laid on those platforms. There’ll also be interlocking brick in front of the credit union and the library.

Street furniture, such as benches and transit shelters, will be installed through the winter and into the spring. We can also expect some small scale construction to continue such as finishing construction on planter beds.

Tree planting

Trees on the east side will be planted in the spring of 2011. The first soil trench is partially completed south of Geoffrey on the east side and the soil is already in. More details about the tree planting to come later on.

End of major reconstruction is near

So the street is really coming together.

There are only three or four weeks left to go, and for today at least the weather seems to be collaborating with the crews to get the street back in order.
 
Roncesvalles, the NO CAR ZONE!

Roncesvalles, the NO CAR ZONE!

I have chatted with most of the shop owners on Roncesvalles and NONE OF THEM WANTED THE STREETCAR, THE PLATFORMS & THE LOSS OF PARKING……PERIOD. They stated that is was forced upon them. The shop owners know that the loss of parking & making Roncesvalles into a one way street to accommodate the platform will cost them the return of the car shopping customer, which they have lost due to the construction. A HUGE PERCENTAGE of shoppers on Roncesvalles were car drivers.

Now that Roncesvalles will officially become a NO CAR ZONE, the shop keepers will loose out.
Lets face it folks. Just how much product does a cyclist or woman pushing a pram filled with kids or seniors with electric cart buy? NOT MUCH AND THAT IS A FACT. Car shoppers buy HUGE amounts of product as they have the means to get it home.

If the people of our community thought beyond their own selfish desires, they would realize that it takes great expense to keep a store open and showing a profit. They obviously don’t have any conception of the costs of running a business and what their selfish desires have done long term to our merchants & to the community.

I pity our hard working shop owners, for they will never regain the lost business of the car drivers, bcos no one will want to fight the GRID LOCK of traffic of a one way street blocked by streetcars, platforms & lack of parking that Roncesvalles will now become. I could understand all this if there was a central parking lot available…….but there is not!

What will all those cyclists & pram pushers do when many of the stores will have to either DRASTICALLY RAISE PRICES to make up the loss of income, which will not make them competitive in the market place OR LACK OF SERVICE/QUALITY OR CLOSE DOWN?

I am seriously disappointed with BIA & councilor Gord Perks for NOT listening to the shop keepers needs for financial growth & instead catered to the needs of those that DO NOT BUY MUCH MERCHANDISE TO BEGIN WITH.
And I did knot know until now that Gord Perks is Anti Car and Pro Cyclists.

Gee, I wonder if Gord Perks practices what he preaches and makes his wife takes the bike or streetcar to do her family mega shopping?

Strolling, sitting or biking around does not fill the cash registers……period! And what's with these benches that will be place directly in front of the limited allotted parked car and their fumes. Yeah right. I can really see a senior enjoying a mouth full of exhaust fumes. Bright, real bright.

Delivery trucks, snow storm pile ups, grid locks........WOW, and that's suppose to make for a fun shopping experience on Roncesvalles.

Shame on those that demanded this heinous, senseless anti car reconstruction plan…….Shame on YOU for literally driving away business!
 
Usurping the voice of a group is a strategy frequently employed by most the vocal opponents of civic projects. Let's bear in mind that the street is mostly for people living in the nabe - I for one am thrilled with street upgrades when they occur, and I buy loads of stuff when on foot or cycle.
 
@ College Park *** Then I take it that you are single? That is no comparison to mega shopping for a family now is it? Talk to me when you have a couple of kids to feed and work 5 days a week and you only have Saturday to shop, clean house, do laundry and Sunday is church day. Tell me then how you manage to carry all the weeks groceries in one shot. Yeah right, like you would have time to shop and stroll every day at your leisure.

You darn right I am opposing this destruction of my 40 year community living by decision makers who do not even shop here or by newcomers who have no idea of a hectic family/working life. Face lift yes, destruction, NO!
 
@ College Park *** Then I take it that you are single? That is no comparison to mega shopping for a family now is it? Talk to me when you have a couple of kids to feed and work 5 days a week and you only have Saturday to shop, clean house, do laundry and Sunday is church day. Tell me then how you manage to carry all the weeks groceries in one shot. Yeah right, like you would have time to shop and stroll every day at your leisure.

You darn right I am opposing this destruction of my 40 year community living by decision makers who do not even shop here or by newcomers who have no idea of a hectic family/working life. Face lift yes, destruction, NO!

I agree Missy and well said...College Park most likely would like see to see this whole city built around his lifestyle, anyways welome to the UT forum Missy.
 

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